Scott F.

Good luck with what works for you. I'm interested in your progress. Before carnivore when I was eating the dumpster type diet if I ate a lot of dessert coupled with the many Moutain Dews for the day with a couple big snack cakes, all that sugar, I crashed mid-afternoon. Sugar rush followed by the crash. Have you experienced a crash of sorts? Energy level drop offs at certain times of the day? Scott

Followed up on an idea from geezy. I put roast on the smoker this morning. When it was within an hour or so from being ready I dropped it in the crock pot for a couple three hours on low. Turned out really nice. Scott

I pulled my 72K5 out yesterday as the recent rains has kept it stuck in the shop. I rinsed it off and drove it around for a bit. I have to change one more light housing today or tomorrow and I will be ready. This will be my first trip to this event. I don't so much on social media (this is about as far out into the abyss as I wade). I guess it popped up on my son's phone and it is just a few minutes from here. I actually pass it on the way to work. The rain is threatening as of today but the chances of showers have lessened each day this week. Looking forward to it. Scott

Cars & Carnivores Street Festival - Rotary Club of Wake Forest This event is this weekend about forty minutes from here. Going to drag out my 72K5 and check out the cars and the meat vendors. Should be a pretty good time. Scott

This past week I had about 80 hours of night shift in 6 days. Five of them with hardly anything to do and only had one productive night, which was the last, thus missing most of Monday night's 'discussion'. I probably watched videos and then read referenced studies (chunks of them) when they were available. It was 'personally educational'. I work in an industry where 'root cause failure analysis' and identifying the 'single point of failure' are a must and is a really big part of the job. I'm the guy on the production end that has to land with laboratory guidelines and then proof it from the production floor. Babbling, but the most important thing in our lab is the 'control standards' which is the material our samples are tested against for purity, performance and sustainability. As I was reading a lot of these studies and watching the videos I could only help to compare the 'control subjects' of the studies to our 'standards' we use for testing. Our 'standards' are created the same each time with an exact specification which makes me think of the variabilities of the control subjects even in the most sophisticated/complex scientific studies. On this thread, take me, Bob and Meathead. I am guessing we are all white males, between 40 and 60, with a wife and a job. If I went back thru all the threads and read the posts on this forum, as well as the couple three video chats I watched/participated, and if this were a scientific study.....the carnivore diet is 100% effective for all white males between 40 and 60. We all know that is not true, but at the same time that is what the data suggests/implies/indicates. (Geezy, you have one or two more birthdays than the criteria of this study, maybe next time, LOL) All three of us took a much different path to get to 40-60 and that path factors. As I read a lot of these studies I see so much variability. I guess that is why I can get 'overly' interested in everyone's person journey. I believe in the science, I believe in the data. I just think a lot of it can easily be manipulated to say something different. I don't see the sugar diet as being effective for me when I was 325lbs, already eating a dumpster diet, with turning wrenches, dragging hoses and pumps and walking samples to the lab was my only means of exercise. I could have turned 325 into 350 in pretty much no time. I watched several of the sugar diet videos and I did not see one person north of 300 pounds nor did I see any of the transformations from 300lbs to 200lbs. Maybe they are out there, and maybe I will see one. I'm strict carnivore and although my version it good for me, I have found that going strict red meat only is actually better for me as an individual. There is no way I could look across the aisle and say, "Hey, Geezy, red meat/nothing else is the only way". Would he see some benefits? Maybe, maybe not. Could our shared experiences help us (and others) learn? Absolutely. @Miranda has mentioned fasting, I am a big fan for me, and I think it will help with her. Do I know that enough to push the agenda? Nope, not in the least. Again, babbling on, after a 72 hour week long, self-induced education. LOL Hope everyone has a good week. Scott

Welcome. This is a good place to bounce your ideas and experiences around, sometimes just flinging it against the wall to see what sticks. I feel like any approach is welcome here. I watched a read along last night as I was at work, and sometimes they expect me to work. But that is the part of the deal, I work, then get paid. But so it goes. Obviously, we can't roll back time and I'm not pushing carnivore as the end all be all but Bart kay described something really similar, which is similar to Saladini, and he says the answer is to up the proteins and fats to match the amounts of the last of the carbs being eaten. I'm not a doctor nor a scientist, and if it were oxalate dumping, the answer could have been the split between part of your system trying to detox from the very things that are a part of the other half of your diet. I have read the last phases of oxalate dumping is the worst. Maybe you were right there? Who knows? I'm a 'to each his own' guy at heart. If the sugar diet gets you where you need/want to go, then by all means that is your path. As I seen the topic for last night and started reading/watching videos I did not realize it was that big of a thing. There seems to be a lot of people moving in that direction. I don't think it would work for me in the short term, nor the long term. Although I didn't have the cravings and withdrawals form carbs and sugars like a lot of people do when making a sudden change but I have found since carnivore I am somewhat responsive to sugar. I modified my carnivore approach to a high protein/moderate fat diet trying to hit a protein gram per pound number and the higher protein was in excess. I have to assume a lot of the excess protein was converted to sugar, probably more than my body needed to function, so in turn, it was stored. I gained 8-9 pounds in pretty much no time. Granted, my weight fluctuates 2-3-4 pounds daily and I am lifting heavier and more intense, but I doubt even a full pound of that is muscle. I can only imagine if I went all out sugar or loaded carbs again. I would more than likely find a big chunk of the 95 pounds I have lost. It is an interesting approach. Good luck and keep the board posted. Like most approaches, with most people, it is the slight modifications to a way of eating that works best. I am a strict carnivore eater and have not eaten any carbs or sugars in 13 months, however, I do have a glass of milk every so often, and occasionally a piece of cheese on a burger. I have thought about reintroduction of carbs at times but my carnivore approach has morphed into more of a health/metabolic approach than a weight loss endeavor. I'm not the luckiest guy in the world and I feel like whatever carb/vegetable I pick to reintroduce would be the very one that triggers my autoimmune disease and then I go right back down that rabbit hole. For me, that is a pretty big gamble, actually too big. Good luck. I'm interested in the results. Scott

I dropped in a watched a few minutes here and there. I guess, mostly, I didn't realize how big of a thing the sugar diet is for a number of people. The videos on youtube are ever increasing. To each his own, but if a way of eating can be scrutinized for sustainability, the sugar diet has to score rather low. I'm biased but much less sustainable than the carnivore approach. Good conversation on Saladini. I can see where the reintroduction of carbs and some sugars could be beneficial to some, especially someone with elite type sports activity with a really deep need for both quick and sustained energy sources. I can't really see 150-300 carbs every day, but I can see the advantages of using those carbs to move in and out of the lower ends of ketosis. I mentioned before the guy in my gym who has been carnivore for four years but shifted to a carb load one day a week about a year ago. He is strict carnivore six days per week and on Thursdays he eats his normal carnivore meal plus two sweet potatoes. He works out Mon-Tues-Wed, skips Thursday and then does a really hard total body workout on Friday, then off the weekend. I can see where this would aid in athletic performance but falls far short of 300 carbs per day. This is a very interesting conversation for me. Also, good conversation around the ancestral use of fruits and such. They were ready and available only a few weeks out of the year, and at some point I am sure they were preserved or dried and used later in the year. Maybe more available in certain geographic areas than others. That is miniscule in comparison to being shipped all over the world from all over the world to make them readily available 24/7/365 just about everywhere in the world. Hopefully I will be able to join in next week. Scott

I wonder........ When looking across the aisle at someone on the sugar diet do they look back at me on the carnivore diet with the same bewilderment? I will drop by here and there tonight. 5 nights in a row at work with basically nothing to do and on my last night they actually expect productivity. The nerve of an employer to expect something in return. LOL Just kidding. I'd much rather have a lot to do as it will make the night go by faster. The last five nights have been dragging. Should be some good conversation. Scott

Welcome to the forum. This is a great place to not only ask questions but share your experiences. The carnivore way of eating is very individualistic. You and I could eat the exact same thing and at best our results would be similar, but never the same. Everything matters and everything factors. I'm 55. I am always intrigued when people much younger than me try this way of eating. Most people tend to be a bit older. Off the top of my head is that I have been pummeling my body longer so therefore the healing may take longer. I would think the younger the better, but just a thought, no real science to that way of thinking. Day 41 is more than likely still in the adjustment phase. I always preface the following with 'I hate to use these words' but I am pretty sure you are still detoxing and having withdrawals from sugars and carbs. The snacking won't help but the most important thing is that you got back on track. Now try to push thru the cravings and maybe the need to snack will get further and further apart. As far as the energy, and fatigue and even mood go, there can be several factors. Are you getting enough fat? You have eliminated your fuel source by not eating the carbs and sugars. There is the adjustment time with your body switching fuel sources and during that time you must supply the fat. Most people say, 'meats and fats' and that is not the priority. Higher fat/moderate proteins is the best approach. You can count macros thru a number of different apps or if you question a ratio just eat some more butter. You completed the most important step of carnivore and that is the elimination of carbs and sugars, and the next step is to replace them with a new fuel. You could simply not be eating enough during your adjustment period. When we eliminate the carbs and sugars our water content changes, and we will need more water until we dial in our proper hydration. Most people get more than enough salt form the garbage diet prior to carnivore. When completing the elimination phase the sodium level can go down and the electrolytes are no longer in balance. In the early stages of carnivore coming up short on electrolytes can be very easy to do, so much so, most everyone misses that early. I'm 13 months is and have not really found the mental clarity or changes in mood. The closest thing I have found is that when I wake up, I'm wide awake in that split second. My eyes open and my feet hit the floor ready to go. If that counts, I may have experienced some of that type of benefit. If not, then maybe it will come later. Good luck, and welcome. Push thru these early stages and maybe 90 days will not be your ceiling as the benefits (as for me) seem to be continual. Scott

Great results. Congratulations. For most the stool settles itself out as you adjust. It may take some tweaking to find out what works best for you. I don't worry much about being in or out of ketosis except when I am doing a longer fast. A day to day 1.5 seems a little high/deep but maybe not. The few times I checked outside of the fast I was under 1.0 and after three days of fasting as deep as 3.4. I think my blood sugar that day was around 81 which gave me a GKI of around 23 or so. I am nowhere near that day to day. My weight fluctuates as well. Celebrate the 26 pounds and keep moving forward. Scott

pound of ground beef with 5 fried eggs laid on top. I poured the grease over top and then added a couple stabs of butter. Looking down into the bowl it was not the most appealing looking dish, but it sure did taste good. It was a struggle and I had to take a break. I have a little left to finish later tonight. Scott

In my view, yep. I can throw out some scientific words here and there, have some basic understanding but don't have the medical background for an all-out debate. Instead of going with the 'study' says, or 'the doctors/research' says, I am going with I started on this date and by this date these 'good' things happened. I continued on making some adjustments here and there but continued with meat/fat, salt and water and the metabolic/immunoglobulin numbers I am most concerned with have shown drastic improvement. At one point I was on pain and inflammation medicine and now I am not and thriving. My one story might not be enough evidence to change the world, but I most definitely don't see me changing my world back. I'm my one of one and I am my own personal case study. And by me being the expert on me, I'm sticking with the carnivore approach. Not exactly the most scientific terminology but my case diagnosis/prognosis is 'there is no need to rock the boat', or maybe even, 'no need to fix what ain't broke'. Scott

Well said. I have several guys at work with diabetes and several take the monthly shots for weight loss. When they are discussing their issues I will add 'there are ways to help/correct your glucose issue with a change in diet'. I am looked at like I am a crazy person. Maybe even the worse part, two guys at work say the medicine is used so he can eat the way he wants. If the sugar goes up after the doughnuts and sweet tea it means he just takes another pill. All we can do is offer to help. I feel like the kid in the back of the class that has the answer today. Squirming back and forth in the chair, hand raised high, waving back and forth at the teacher, "I know the answer! I know the answer!". Scott

A carnivore's second most popular conversation after meats/fats is the end results of consuming meats/fats. The color commentary is simply beautiful. I like 'going for distance'. Scott

No doubts. I would be a big fan of that round table as well. Thus far I have enjoyed the fasting and where it takes me, both during and after. Maybe it is a nuance, maybe I am sort of slow and the 'mental clarity' thing has not happened for me thus far, but it's still hard for me to wrap my head around 'not eating to get an increase in energy'. I have read a lot about it and I can say most of the scientific words to explain it, but 'eating to put in work' was so engrained in me from childhood is still tough to see clearly. Good luck as you explore the fasting. Maybe someday we will get that roundtable. Scott

Things have been slow at work the last three nights. Both fortunately and unfortunately, I have wasted my time on youtube. I think I have about three videos to go, and I am at the end of the list. Maybe by tomorrow night there will be new videos, so I don't have to watch re-runs. In the past three nights I have learned the above diets are perfect in every way and at the same time they will be the death to us all. It mostly depends on the opinion of the person making the video. Dr. Mike takes down other people on their approach and then Kay destroys Dr. Mike. MacDonald then goes after Dr. Mike and Dr. Mike takes down Nippard. From there, LaFleur is 'pro' whoever he interviews as long as you buy your groceries from whatever company he is hawking this week. Norton then goes after Berry who references Chaffee and Norton goes after Chaffee. The Chaffee pulls out the very study Norton was involved in and asked him to read the part about the dangers of green leaf plant toxins. Dr. Baker ate a piece of fruit and it has not had that much negative impact on society since Eve ate an apple in the Garden of Eden. Saladini referenced Baker only to get trashed by Kay. Hopefully they can all get in the same room and work it out, maybe even WWE style, but work it out, nonetheless. Maybe even a last man standing battle royal, or a cage match or even the famed Texas Death match, cowbell included. The only medical opinion they all seem to have in common is that at some point we are all going to die. I guess at the very end there is some science to the science. I will show back up at work tonight with my meat and fat and salt and water and watch videos on whether I'm eating correctly or I'm an absolute imbecile. (Kay's favorite word, I even started a counter on how many times he used it to describe certain members of the carb community) Youtube makes for a really long night shift. Scott

2 chuck steaks. 4 eggs. a chunk of butter. I have a 1/2 chicken that will be ready shortly. Scott

This is a good place to bounce your ideas and experiences off others. Most of the time someone has personally experienced some of the same things and can offer up some insight. Worst case scenario, someone can still point you in the right direction. Good luck. Scott

I just read an article from the 50's about using red meat and water to treat Multiple Sclerosis. Back then it was called the 'Red Meat" diet. Maybe if it had a more catchy name like "Carnivore" back then it would have caught on and off-set some of the next 75 years of propaganda. Hard to say. Big Pharma/Big Food had a ton of push back then as most people's research was limited to the World Book Encyclopedia. If the told us, it was true. We were both blind and unsuspecting. I mean, 'the government wouldn't allow them to lie? I am a big fan of the 'coming full circle' stories. Nice post. Scott

Yes, 58 days is early, but I think my 13 months is sort of 'early' too. I went in headfirst thinking only that carnivore was some diet hack to quickly drop some pounds. I didn't do any research at all. My son said you just eat meat and water. Eat as much as you want and pretty much don't eat again til you are hungry. He had lost 12-14 pounds in a short amount of time. I dove in and lost ~30-31 pounds in ~31-31 days. So the 'hack' was a success right off the bat. 6-7 weeks in I stumbled upon/realized I hadn't taken my medicine for NMO/SD. I thought it was just a coincidence after watching a video of a lady healing from MS. I thought her story was a crock trying to get me to buy something. Then the following week, no medicine. I have been medicine free since June of last year. My immunoglobulin numbers are just about within range to ease off the infusions I get every six months. It has been a crazy 13 months or so. So yes, 58 days is pretty early and you probably have more benefits to come. Good luck. Scott

I have read where it can happen in weeks and sometimes months. It depends on how heavy the diet was prior to the change, and how abrupt the change is from say, Standard American Diet to Carnivore. I had some redness along my lower back about 2-3 months in and I can't say it was oxalate dumping or just something that simply irritated my skin. I dove in headfirst from SAD to carnivore in one day. I didn't cheat or have cheat days, and have not had bread, fruits or vegetables in pushing 13 months. My change was 'abrupt' and if I dumped oxalates I didn't recognize it as a thing til much later. It could be. Welcome to the board and welcome to this way of eating. Maybe one of the more experienced carnivores will have more insight. Scott

Why You DON'T Want to Stay In Ketosis 24/7 | Prof. Bart Kay Another one. This one is more what I was trying to say but after re-reading my post it sounds like I'm n ketosis all the time. I didn't go into enough detail. This video does a much better job of explaining where I was headed. Scott

Professor Bart Kay - Fat consumption on a Carnivore Diet - YouTube This is a pretty good video that touches on some of the topics in this thread. Scott

I'm guessing since you found it on the internet it has to be true. Scott

Welcome. And welcome back to this way of eating. Ketosis and ketones and the 'depth' at which you get into ketosis can have several variables. I am a strict carnivore eater, but I do drink a glass of milk here and there. I only check my ketone levels when I am fasting and have only done it a few times on a normal non-fasting day. On a normal day I am also in the .7 to .9. After 48 hours of fasting, I was at 2.0 and at 72 hours I was at 3.4, which is fairly deep. A daily of .7 or so is pretty good. As complex as the body can be, it will take the easy route when it is available. Even if you are zero carb and zero sugars your body still needs sugar. When your fat content gets low or is not in the higher fat/moderate protein model your body will turn to the protein, use a process called gluconeogenesis, and convert that protein to sugar, which is a good thing. The issue is that if it chooses the protein due to its abundance and the "absence" of fat (not enough fat) there will be excess sugars. Those excess sugars can off-set depth of ketosis. If you are in ketosis at all your fat to protein ratio is close. If you fast to whereas your body fat is the only source of fuel, you will travel deeper into ketosis. Deeper runs into ketosis requires a high fat/moderate protein diet going in, and then some longer fasts for whatever period works for you. Good luck. Scott