Scott F.

I am on my second stint of the lion diet. The first time I genuinely felt better. I have an autoimmune disease (NMO/SD) which is similar to MS. The "all-red meat" diet in the 50's was used with a lot of success for MS patients. This second stint I am not so sure I feel anything different after a month or so. I had bloodwork done just before switching from carnivore to the Lion version and I will have more at the end of September. Maybe I see the needle move in some of my results then but right now, sort of feels the same as regular carnivore. @Bob I can't speak to the kidneys and protein with any real experience, but this is what I am thinking on more of a general basis and it goes to previous conversations/threads on wading thru the medical research that is now readily available. Is protein bad for the kidneys? I think not so much if you have healthy kidneys to start with and you have a diet and a lifestyle that promotes the positive use of proteins. I think the same with cholesterol. Is LDL and higher cholesterol a bad thing? I think probably not, if on a diet somewhere between keto and carnivore (and maybe closer to carnivore) If we just eat a load of crap, and amongst that load is a lot of protein, I am sure that is taxing on the kidneys. Since red meat and a high fat diet is absolutely taboo to the majority of the world, especially the medical professions, The first conclusion is that it is the protein (red meat) that is damaging the kidneys. Which, just like LDL and heart disease, could be technically true. If we eat a diet that keeps us close to the ketosis mark and even pushes us into the lower ends of ketosis on a regular basis, we become fat adaptive. We are using the fat, and it is not laying around in stores. Higher fat in the blood stream can be expected but it is moving to be used vs. being stored. Same with the kidneys and the proteins. The kidney is fine with protein until it has to work thru a ton of 'crap' before the proteins get there and if dehydrated, it is another ball game altogether. But like LDL, proteins (meat/fats) are the easiest culprit to sell. I think also that is why the health issues that get fixed with carnivore is such a broad spectrum. Sometimes I even forget the health is coming from what we are not eating much more so than the fats/proteins that we are eating. If I fill my gas tank with half gas and half water, I am going to have all kinds of problems. If I drain the tank and fill it up with just gas most would think the gas fixed the problems when in reality, not adding water is the true fix. (dumbed it way down-but that is how my brain works) Babbling at work waiting for the day to get rolling. Scott

They will get smarter in one sense but will fade in the ability to think critically. I try not to knock on the kids today, as they are our future, but here are my pet peeve examples. Few true car guys left at the auto parts stores. If it does not pop out on the computer, it is obvious that part does not exist. The other day I watched a kid struggle with a parts catalog trying to cross reference one brand gasket for another. It was a real struggle. He stepped back, pulled his phone out, let Google/ChatGPT do the magic, got the answer and entered that in his computer. Fortunately, and unfortunately at the same time, he will be able to that faster next time but if he does not have his phone he is as lost as last year's easter egg. Still has no idea how to use the cross-reference catalog. Part of life is struggling. People learn from struggling, learn to work thru and work out all kinds of situations. This is what builds their foundation as they go thru life. With a solid foundation you can only fall so far, which makes getting back up a tad bit easier. With AI and such so many of those simple foundation building experiences will never be had. My god son sounds as intelligent as any 16 year old out there. He knows the answer to most anything you can ask him. He knows cars and engines like he grew up in the fifties building those first hot rods. Thru the internet, he knows it all. When I ask for a wrench or to actually use a hammer to drive a nail, he struggles. He knows the answer in words but can't answer with actions. But this is the direction the world is travelling. Seems scary to me, but I'm an old 56, and a not so tech savvy 56 at that. Scott

Agree with BillyGoat. I found mixing my own is botch cheaper and easier, plus I can use it as a 'table salt'. It took a few months to work itself out but now I only salt my food, and that is not every time. If the salt does not taste good or appealing at that time I am guessing I have enough. As mentioned, if I know tomorrow is going to be a hot day with a heavy workload outside, I do pre-hydrate with a 'salt' solution. Great topic as it is useful information from the beginning stages of carnivore up to and after the 'adjustments'. Scott

It can be really weird what happens to the body based on the foods we choose to eat. I came out of the service with the innate ability to turn fifteen minutes into a power nap that felt like several hours long. I rolled out the military into various forms of 12 hour rotating shift work. My ability to power nap was always a go to if I could fifteen minutes (anywhere, any conditions, any amounts of noise-just get still, concentrate and go out like a light) When I took the Supervisor's job in 2015 that all changed. I have nights since where I have done my damn-est to get in ten or fifteen minutes and can't force myself to sleep. Some say it is because I gave up my hourly-paid rotating shift worker membership card when I moved to a salary position. I don't know what happened but I sure do miss that ability. Carnivore for 15+ months and it has had no effects to my lack of ability to nap. Babbling. Bob mentioned carnivore and skin tags and in my brain I could not see any correlation. I have always had them under my arms and even had to have one removed once as it turned and started growing inward to for a pilonidal cyst. I had been on carnivore about a year and looked in the mirror to see the ones under my arm were gone. I had them just about my entire life not eating carnivore and after a year of eating carnivore they are gone. I have looked for information to explain the correlation/correction of carnivore but have not found any. Maybe the biggest lesson I have learned about going carnivore is that we are all individuals and there is nothing cookie-cutter when it comes to us as individuals on carnivore. Scott

Mostly for other reasons. I have an autoimmune disease called Neuromyelitis Optica Spectrum Disorder which is basically the same as MS, just with different treatments. The fasts help reset the autoimmune system. it switches you into autophagy which helps clean the body of older cells, it gets you into ketosis where the glucose has been depleted and the body burns fats/ketones. From the human growth hormone production goes up by four or five times the normal amounts and then stem cells increase which can help heal. I find huge amounts of energy the second/third day into the fast and that energy lasts til a day or two afterwards. I try to fast three days one month and then a 4-5 day fast the following month. I am no expert but I think the best connection/benefit with carnivore is that I am already fat adapted. My glucose levels are relatively low so I get into ketosis a little quicker and the ketone levels start increasing early on. Again, not an expert by any means, but I think the carnivore community gets to the benefits of fasting quicker so the first 12-16 hours the body does not have to deplete glycogen as the glucose/sugar levels are not what they would be for someone who eats sugars/carbs as a regular part of their diet. Since carnivore (May of '24) I stopped all medicines for pain and inflammation. No more prednisone and Neurontin. My bloodwork suggests this will be my last six hour infusion. Carnivore has did me wonders and fasting give the health change a boost/kick in the pants. LOL Scott

I'm a big fan of slated pork as well as fatback and such. I also salt the other foods I eat as well. I missed on the electrolytes early on, simply knowing better, but not doing better. I tried some salt/electrolyte additives but couldn't find one that tasted good enough to consistently buy. I then started to make my own electrolyte mixes at home with some really cheap salts/potassium from the grocery store. From there adding them to water no longer tasted all that good so I used my electrolyte mix as a "table salt" of sorts. If I know I'm going to be outside in the hot working I will add some extra salt, most of the time the day before, but at least that morning. On average all I am getting is what I am adding or from one of the salted pork selections. 90% is thru food, either salted or me salting it. That drops a bit when I do my 4 or 5 day water fasts. I take salt under the tongue followed by water. Scott

I can't decide if it sparked a sugar craving and I replaced it with steak or whether it simply made my hungry. Not sure. Regardless, it sparked appetite and I have not had that in a while. I never had like sugar cravings or withdrawals or any issue starting carnivore 'cold turkey' off the other foods. I guess looking back I didn't give sugar its just due. It is indeed a powerful substance. Scott

The food pyramid has to be the most successful scams in the history of the world. Most of us, if not all, were indoctrinated with so many falsehoods about the way we should eat. My son lost 14-15 pounds in a couple weeks and I gave carnivore a try as the next diet hack. What was appealing to me was eating beef and bacon "as much as I want". That was quite the sales pitch. Imagine, "eat all you want and still lose weight", not exactly a hard sell. I stumbled upon the 'side effects' of carnivore. No pain, no inflammation, off medicine I had been on for years, immune system bloodwork rebounding to normal levels, a sustainable energy throughout the day, and waking up ready to go as soon as open my eyes. (one drawback to waking up ready to go is like right now. I woke up at 3:15AM, felt good, felt like I had slept 'long enough' and I won't be able to go back to sleep. So this morning I will get an early start on the day and when this happens, I feel it later in the day but not to the point of crashing out tired.) Geezy, is your son eating carnivore? Mine has been on carnivore three, nay four times in the last year or so. It lasts for thirty days or so for him. He sees all the benefits, but he and his wife eat out a lot and it can be done but it does have its share of difficulties. My wife gave it a couple three tries, a couple two week stints and then one for thirty. She lost some weight each time, but she likes the vegetables and the variety in her diet. I have mentioned it before, but I think carnivore fits me really well because I was such a boring eater anyway. I don't need variety or spices or sauces or rubs or anything that alters the taste of meats. Forever I was a salt and pepper only, and salt and pepper on everything. As of late I don't care for pepper all that much, so I am a 'meat and salt' guy. I could eat the same thing every day without issue. Scott

Maybe I am cheating a bit, not sure. I use the air fryer. I cut the fat/suet into one inch cubes and put them in the air fryer. The fat renders out nicely and it leaves the crispies in the basket. The fat renders out nicely, the 'fat crispies' taste amazing. The only drawback is that I have found no matter how much I make the 'fat crispies' get gone the same day. I need to figure out how to hide them from myself so I can get a couple days of eating them. We used beef tallow to baste pork ribs with a few months ago and they turned out rather well. Rendering fat for that alone is worth the time....and then there are those crispies all over again. LOL Scott

I'm a huge fan of 'personal health experiments'. At least with these I feel like I am not basing my decisions and conclusions based on someone else's experiences. Other than me being in control I don't see a lo of difference between me doing a 'personal health experiment' and a doctor 'practicing medicine'. Neither one of us know the end result. LOL I have been on all red meat for a month or so now and last night was the time I ate anything other than red meat during that time. Sometimes it is hard to define 'I feel better' or even harder to define 'I feel better'. It is not like I have crazy energy on red meat but I do feel like I am getting more done during the same amount of time as a regular carnivore. I have a 1950 Chevrolet truck in the shop and just bought a 1969 Chevrolet. My overtime has slowed a bit and I have several days the past few weeks working in the shop. Just me, the trucks, the chickens and the dogs all creating 'noise' at the same time. Maybe it is carnivore, might even be the red meat or maybe this much time in the shop listening to the 'music we make' I could be eating corn flakes and cabbage and feel the same. LOL I am super happy with my current path and I am not a 'rock the boat' kind of guy with my health/the way I feel. Looking into the glycine. Thanks for the heads up. Scott

3 Reasons to Consider Creatine on Carnivore and Animal-Based Diets Creatine is now NON-NEGOTIABLE. If You’ve Never Taken 20g of Creatine, Watch THIS Immediately Creatine may be the most studied performance enhancer ever. Some recent studies show it may not be the performance enhancer it was once thought but the doors for brain health and mental cognizance are wide open. There is some debate within the carnivore community that we get enough by the meats we eat. Probably true for some but I ate more meat prior to carnivore than I do now. Carnivore and the satiety of meat, especially red meat, has killed my appetite so I use creatine pretty much regularly. Scott

I use creatine daily. Forever it was a muscle building supplement but recent studies have shown it serves a far greater purpose for mental/brain health. The water weight is true but not all that meaningful. If I am a pro bodybuilder with a body fat percentage with a bodyfat count in the single digits the amount of water retained is impactful but for the average every day guy, not so much. Timing is not as important as once thought. I do two doses daily to get to 10-15 grams. Scott

Yes. I will go out on a limb and say that it helps everyone (well, most everyone) but based on a person's individual health the healing comes at different rates. Good luck. Scott

I also eat a lot of butter. I'm on a red meat only version of carnivore, some call the Lion's Diet right now. I sometimes purchase meats that are a bit lean and don't carry the fat content I am looking for so I use butter-and sometimes a lot of butter. I too will toss some in the pan to cook with and then eat a couple dabs off the butter tray while cooking. I think everyone has shifts in blood panels when the switch first occurs. At some point when your body becomes fat adapted and the adjustment period is over those numbers/that metabolic panel could be your new norm. I have blood work fairly often and have tracked different things up and down as I have been on the diet longer and longer. I expected my total cholesterol and LDL to go up but they went down. I didn't expect my immune numbers to drastically improve to the point I no longer take daily medication and have a high probability of no longer needing the six-month infusions. Good luck as you progress and welcome to the forum. Scott

Welcome. This is a great place to learn and chat and teach with your own experiences. We all can have some similar experiences, but we are individuals, and the carnivore effects are not cookie-cutter. What Bob said. LOL It is an adjustment. Most people have stool issues but in the beginning, it is no more 'going carnivore' or 'going anything else'. Most anytime there is a drastic change in diet the body reacts with some stomach issues of sorts. It is normal. I t can be a pain and hassle, but it is not long term. As Bob, said, you will get your new normal as you adjust. Once you adjust and dial in your fat to protein ratios to you, your new normal will form. I have found it I miss low on fats my stool stiffens and is not normal. If I miss high, eating much more fat than I need I can get loose. I think most have similar stories. Again, welcome. Scott

Yep. When others hunt here they do the same. It is a doubly win for me. We get some meat that does not cost much more than the time and the packaging paper. The second thing is the dogs get all kinds of guts and bones and goodies. I sort of eat free meat (but then someone has to pay taxes on the land whether the deer choose to live there or not, LOL) and I don't have to spend money feeding the dogs for a day or two. The deeper we dive I think the costs are somewhat the same across the board which places even more "value" on knowing where and how your food originates. Since I don't really hunt anymore but have a bunch of friends who do, I get leftovers/scraps for the dogs throughout much of the winter. It is good for them and if I do a deep dive it saves me some money and if I dive deeper, I can use those savings to buy the rib eye vs. the chuck steak and money wise it is all the same. LOL Scott

If you were eating the lean meat alone there would probably not be any sustainability issues but more than likely would not see the true benefits of going carnivore. I tried to morph the carnivore concept to another way of thinking and went with some leaner cuts and allowed the fat content to drop. (in my early stages of carnivore, I was only concerned with weight loss and only saw carnivore as a weight loss hack). I thought I could get into a calorie deficit by cutting the fats and still be eating carnivore. The weight loss stalled, and I actually gained some weight back. Once I adjusted the fat content back up, so the diet was higher fat/moderate protein, the weight began to fall again. The second thing I found, and this may just me personally, but when I am heavy on the lean proteins and don't 'add fat' the stools are still further between but going to the bathroom is a longer and can be somewhat constipated. The higher fat content for me helps keep me regular. If the venison is readily available, it is one of the better sources of meat protein. I would take advantage of that at every opportunity. One of the kicks/hacks I have been on lately since I switched to an all-red meat diet is that I melt butter and dip my meats, using the butter like a 'steak sauce'. In the case of venison, this would help bring the fat content up while eating lean protein. Babbling on. Good luck. Scott

1-How can I figure out how much food (and calories) I should eat to lose weight? The rule of thumb is to eat til you are comfortably full and then eat again when you are hungry, then repeat. For me, carnivore works best for me if my first meal is around noon. Some days I eat again at supper time but most of the time I eat again the following day. 2-Should I count calories or follow the eating-to-satiety model, even if it hasn't worked for fat loss? (not after the initial 100 days of the Carnivore diet). I don't count calories as far as a total daily intake goes. However, I have counted protein for the last several months. I'm 56 walk and resistance train regularly. I'm trying to offset normal muscle loss as we age plus the debilitating effects of an autoimmune disease. It is hard for me to eat 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass. 3-How do I deal with hunger when eating a carnivore diet with the goal of fat loss? Eat. A lot of times if you are not eating enough your body will respond by storing for another day. You will stall in your weight loss. Snacking is not optimal as it moves your glucose and insulin up and down throughout the say. But if you must, make the snacks as carnivore as possible. A burger patty broken into four sections is four bite size snacks. 4-Would it be possible to lose 12-15 lbs by the end of this year without going hungry? I would say yes. If you are already doing resistance training and a little cardio here and there eating fattier meats should help in the weight loss. Carnivore is a higher fat and moderate protein approach to eating. Once the body becomes fat adapted normally the weight starts to drop with consistency. I added a protein shake to get to a protein mark, but the sugar added to my appetite, and I gained weight. I started carnivore with just weight loss in mind but stumbled upon several life changing positive effects to my health. Losing weight is positive and for most, it is the goal, but the other benefits are just as impactful. Good luck. Scott

I was in a hunting conversation once and I said there are not much savings in meat cost when hunting deer. The came at me like a lynch mob out for justice. Now if you own your land, you don't lease land, or pay for a club membership, don't buy a new gun every other year with the latest in optics, or feed a pack of hounds year around, and don't spend a boat load of money on the 'best ever dog box' and you can get around your annual tags/limits, there is probably some savings. If one were to factor in his passion for hunting and it is what he will be doing anyway, there is some value in that and knowing where your meat comes from most definitely carries value as well. Adding up all the money spent then do the math on the number of pounds in the freezer and for the average hunter it is much cheaper to go to the grocery store. As Geezy has said, that way of life is slowly eroding/being eroded, similar to the small farmers/ranchers. If they were giving sausage/pork chops/hams/bacon/pork bell/side meat/fat back/chitterlings/pig feet away at the store for free my father-in-law would much rather be at the pack house in sub-freezing temperature with the only warmth coming from a scalding box scraping hair knowing the food that was to come rather than take advantage of free meat at the grocery store. Not many like that left. Scott

Nice work. I will do my next one starting Friday. I am not sure if I will eat Thursday night going into a weekend of nights or eat Friday around lunch and start from there. "Game time decision" I guess. Hopefully you come out better than I do as this may be the only drawback I have with fasting. I just have not nailed down the 'coming off' part. Scott

Yep. Prices were up this week at the market. My brother-in-law carried 6 this past week. He said he did pretty good, all things considered. He is mostly just trying not to feed them this winter. It seems like it is high on whichever end we are on. LOL Scott

Congrats on the fast. Good job. 64 hours is a stretch. I have read there starts to be diminishing returns between 72 and 96. Good luck and great work. I'm really interested in how you come off the fast. I have not figured that out for myself. I have tried multiple different ways from what I eat to how much I eat, to using bone broth, etc. and I no matter I wind up really loose for a couple days. Interested. Scott

Dessicated liver is a great supplement. It is a true source of energy for most people. Big fan. When it was studied in the 60's they did a performance test on rats. One group were fed a normal rat diet, one group a performance enhanced rat diet and then the third group was fed a lot of dessicated liver. The rats were dropped in a bucket of water and were forced to swim for time (first group swam for X amount of minutes and finally gave in to exhaustion. The second group went further but eventually exhaustion got the better of the second group as well. The third group that was heavy on dessicated liver never stopped swimming even tripling the time of the first two groups and eventually they gave up on looking for a time. Dessicated liver had proven itself. (This could be seen as torture disguised as science but most of what we know stems from the death of something else) Scott

Chuck steaks and hamburger is usually the go-to's for me when saving a few dollars. I also hit the marked down red-meats whenever I see them. Most of the time I don't care which cut, just the reduction in price is the key. The fattier the cut the better but I can always add some bites of butter to get the fat content up. Around here pork and chicken are cheap in comparison to red meat and I stock up, especially leg thighs or quarters, whenever they go on sale. I also check out ads at different stores. I don't drive to three or four stores to catch their sales but if one has a particularly good sale, I will do the remainder of the shopping at that store. Sams's is also a good choice. The closest one to me is about 35 minutes away but on the way home from work. My wife and I seldom shop together there because is it does not make a lot of sense to drive 35 minutes (gas and time) to save (maybe even less) on food. (the time carrying most of the weight). I usually stop by there on the way home from night shift. It is convenient with that approach and sometimes convenience can carry some dollar value. Our chickens produce more eggs than we can eat but not enough to off-set the cost of feed and time. I feed the extras to the dogs so it sort of off-sets their expense some. This one the value is in knowing where they came from and what went into them being made. I can't tie it to a dollar amount but I feel like there is some 'value/savings' in just knowing. We used to do our own cows and pigs but have gotten away from it several years ago. Between my Mom's restaurant and another in town my feed cost for the pigs was just the gas and time. Just an opinion and never had the heart to do the math. We always seemed to need one or two more cows sold or butchered to break even. Every time it looked like we were going to be on the + side of the equation it would stop raining. A drought or semi-drought meant I had to buy hay and when people know you have to buy hay, that price goes up too. By no means did we have the Yellowstone, nor was it a large cattle operation, but by the time we did the math I always hoped we just could break even. My wife and I have talked about getting more and spacing their ages out, so we have one aged/grown enough each fall. Go from there. Great topic. Scott

Good luck. It is also important to know that it your health that is important not whether or not carnivore works for me. (if that makes any sense). Carnivore may or may not be for you for any number of reasons but hopefully you find a healthier path. Good luck on your next try. This is a good place to ask and learn and get yourself in a good position to make a m ore gradual shift in the way you eat. Best of luck. Scott