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Oh wow. That rash sounds pretty painful. Sally K Norton was recently interviewed by Dr Kiltz. She gives easy and cheap recommendations for dealing with oxalate dumping. Check her out. As for the last 40 lbs, I'm right there with you! Let us know how things go. I think getting some before data would be good. Blood panel and cac score.

Got 12 pounds of bacon on the pit.

Sugar diet,huh? Yeah,we humans used to eat whatever we had access to, whenever that was possible. No diet plans or choices. Just survival. We have completely different problems now,everything being available for us western,lucky folks at all times. I wonder how long all this luxury will last? We are using up all resources in such a manner that who knows when things are forced to change? Meanwhile I will enjoy very low carbs and high animal fat to stay in good condition.

I was keto-vore for 9 months. Strict and monitored glucose and ketones regularly via keto mojo finger sticks. Was in low - moderate states of ketosis for months on end. Foods were largely Dr. Berrys BBB&E. I knew what I was doing and things were going great, until they weren’t. I mentioned last night that I’m not certain that my energy tanking and the rash were a result of my ketovore diet. But I added in carbs after experiencing the itchiest rash of my life for after about 4 weeks. Three days after adding carbs the itching started to go away. After 5 days the rash was gone. Again, my symptoms came after 9 months. I’m moving away from the keto / carnivore lifestyle to experiment with a new weight loss strategy—sugar fasting. My WHY is simple… I have been chronically 40 pounds overweight for too many years. My opinion is that getting rid of the fat is the best thing that I can do for my body to improve overall health.

Welcome aboard Nick. I'm not as long winded typing on the phone vs talking in real life. Miranda thank you and I will reiterate to Nick....What is your WHY for trying the carnivore lifestyle? As I stated in chat last night, Geoff reiterates it.... the itchiness could have been caused by histamine in what you're eating. Too many variables, vagueness in your diet and regimen to pinpoint what caused your problems with carnivore lifestyle. Check out Michaela Peterson's journey as it could give you some insight as to what happened.

Welcome Nick. I’m glad you joined us. I’d be curious to know what your carnivore diet consisted of. Yes the rash could have been oxalate dumping, that seems to be the go to response in those situations but it could also have been an allergic reaction or histamine response to something. For some people who have some food sensitivities the Lion Diet is more suitable. I experienced some rashes on a couple of different occasions but mine weren’t as severe as yours sound like and mine went away after a week or two. The energy running low sounds like the classic “not getting enough fat” or “not eating enough”. While I don’t have this great burst of energy that many talk about I do have a sustained energy that allows me to goo all day. Again, without knowing how you are it’s hard to try to evaluate what might have been the issue. You seem to have a sensible mind and understanding of what is needed for a healthy diet so if you were eating a proper human diet and following carnivore correctly (that of course is relative to the individual) then it’s possible that eating a strict carnivore diet may not be right for you. Not everyone is cut out for this way of eating as their bodies do better with a little carbs in their lifestyle. For people who need some carbs in their diet we recommend that those carbs consist of whole vegetables in the form of green, above ground veggies. Stay away from starchy vegetables, seeds, seed oils and sugars except for the occasional fruit with berries being the best. Regardless of whether you call it The Sugar Diet, Fructose Diet or Fruitarian Diet, the majority of people cannot sustain a healthy life consuming large quantities of sugars or fructose. Besides risking diabetes, fatty liver disease , inflammation, cancer, fat storage and overall poor metabolic health it’s just not sustainable for the long term in my opinion. There is no nutritional requirement for carbs in our bodies and we know that all carbs consumed are metabolized as sugar or glucose in our bodies. So since that is the case it would seem to me that adding some vegetables to the diet would be better than just sugar or fructose. I personally believe that this whole sugar diet craze is nothing more than an excuse to not give into our sugar addictions. No society in the history of mankind has ever eating anything like the sugar diet so it seems pretty silly to me to start something new now. Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not judging you or what you are trying in the least, it’s just not my thing. I think it’s great when people experiment and try different things. I follow Nick Norwitz and get a kick out of his N of 1 experiments. I wish you the best of luck and look forward to hearing all about your results.

Welcome. This is a good place to bounce your ideas and experiences around, sometimes just flinging it against the wall to see what sticks. I feel like any approach is welcome here. I watched a read along last night as I was at work, and sometimes they expect me to work. But that is the part of the deal, I work, then get paid. But so it goes. Obviously, we can't roll back time and I'm not pushing carnivore as the end all be all but Bart kay described something really similar, which is similar to Saladini, and he says the answer is to up the proteins and fats to match the amounts of the last of the carbs being eaten. I'm not a doctor nor a scientist, and if it were oxalate dumping, the answer could have been the split between part of your system trying to detox from the very things that are a part of the other half of your diet. I have read the last phases of oxalate dumping is the worst. Maybe you were right there? Who knows? I'm a 'to each his own' guy at heart. If the sugar diet gets you where you need/want to go, then by all means that is your path. As I seen the topic for last night and started reading/watching videos I did not realize it was that big of a thing. There seems to be a lot of people moving in that direction. I don't think it would work for me in the short term, nor the long term. Although I didn't have the cravings and withdrawals form carbs and sugars like a lot of people do when making a sudden change but I have found since carnivore I am somewhat responsive to sugar. I modified my carnivore approach to a high protein/moderate fat diet trying to hit a protein gram per pound number and the higher protein was in excess. I have to assume a lot of the excess protein was converted to sugar, probably more than my body needed to function, so in turn, it was stored. I gained 8-9 pounds in pretty much no time. Granted, my weight fluctuates 2-3-4 pounds daily and I am lifting heavier and more intense, but I doubt even a full pound of that is muscle. I can only imagine if I went all out sugar or loaded carbs again. I would more than likely find a big chunk of the 95 pounds I have lost. It is an interesting approach. Good luck and keep the board posted. Like most approaches, with most people, it is the slight modifications to a way of eating that works best. I am a strict carnivore eater and have not eaten any carbs or sugars in 13 months, however, I do have a glass of milk every so often, and occasionally a piece of cheese on a burger. I have thought about reintroduction of carbs at times but my carnivore approach has morphed into more of a health/metabolic approach than a weight loss endeavor. I'm not the luckiest guy in the world and I feel like whatever carb/vegetable I pick to reintroduce would be the very one that triggers my autoimmune disease and then I go right back down that rabbit hole. For me, that is a pretty big gamble, actually too big. Good luck. I'm interested in the results. Scott

Hi, welcome to the community! So what is your long term goal? What's your why?

Hi all, was recommended to join here after chatting in the live on last night's Youtube video. 1 year ago I began eating a keto-vore type diet. Initially lost about 15 pounds and then nothing. Plateaued for months. At 9 months in, I developed a very itchy rash all over my flanks and armpits. So itchy that I could barely sleep. My energy felt like I was running on motor oil instead of gasoline as well. I asked around the carnivore space for help and was told the same 3 things over and over again: 1. you're oxalate dumping, add more electrolytes to support. 2. Just keep going, it will pass. 3. You must be doing your diet wrong. I lasted another 3 weeks and had to bail on the diet. I wasn't sure if what I was experiencing was directly caused by the diet, but after adding carbs back in the itch began to go away after 3 days. And after 5 days the rash was gone. After this, my diet returned to the SAD diet and I gained about 10 pounds back. Today, I am 3.5 weeks into the sugar diet. I've lost 9 pounds and I feel good up to this point. Let me be clear... I don't think this is healthy when done for extended periods of time. There is no optimal human health when the diet excludes meat. Currently I weigh 226 lbs. Goal is 175.

Thanks. I've got several cast iron pans and a dutch oven which I enjoy using. I make Neisha Berry's cornless cornbread (fantastic recipe by the way) in my dutch oven. I'm going to take my 12" cast iron fry pan and polish it as smooth as possible and then re-season it. saw a guy do that online and it really improved the pan a lot for him. All the teflon is going in the recycle bin for disposal. Never had much luck with stainless and can't afford a good carbon steel pan.

I'm convinced more than ever that the world is full of idiots after hearing about the sugar diet a few weeks ago. If a person would do even a small amount of reading or research online they could maybe see the error of their decision. Oh well, it's not my job to save their ass so they can grab a big spoon and the sugar bowl or maybe a jar of honey and dig right in. Good luck with your future cancers. They are a bitch, trust me, I've been down that road once and being carnivore I hope to never travel that road again! Things like this are one of the main reasons I don't really like people anymore. The world has gone to shit and this is just another reason to believe that! True carnivores know the truth by our own personal experiences with this WOE. Long live the carnivores!!!

I dropped in a watched a few minutes here and there. I guess, mostly, I didn't realize how big of a thing the sugar diet is for a number of people. The videos on youtube are ever increasing. To each his own, but if a way of eating can be scrutinized for sustainability, the sugar diet has to score rather low. I'm biased but much less sustainable than the carnivore approach. Good conversation on Saladini. I can see where the reintroduction of carbs and some sugars could be beneficial to some, especially someone with elite type sports activity with a really deep need for both quick and sustained energy sources. I can't really see 150-300 carbs every day, but I can see the advantages of using those carbs to move in and out of the lower ends of ketosis. I mentioned before the guy in my gym who has been carnivore for four years but shifted to a carb load one day a week about a year ago. He is strict carnivore six days per week and on Thursdays he eats his normal carnivore meal plus two sweet potatoes. He works out Mon-Tues-Wed, skips Thursday and then does a really hard total body workout on Friday, then off the weekend. I can see where this would aid in athletic performance but falls far short of 300 carbs per day. This is a very interesting conversation for me. Also, good conversation around the ancestral use of fruits and such. They were ready and available only a few weeks out of the year, and at some point I am sure they were preserved or dried and used later in the year. Maybe more available in certain geographic areas than others. That is miniscule in comparison to being shipped all over the world from all over the world to make them readily available 24/7/365 just about everywhere in the world. Hopefully I will be able to join in next week. Scott

1/2 lb lean ground beef with creamy cheese sauce Black decaf Yerba mate with lemon 10oz blade steak Tetley decaf sun tea (very weak-,only one teabag in a quart container)

We start in 10 minutes. Hope to see you there. The StreamYard link to join us onscreen is in the first post in this topic.... https://carnivoretalk.com/topic/1337-monday-night-live-streams-how-you-can-watch-andor-be-a-guest-with-bob-geezy/ We're still reusing the same link each week, so far.

I wonder........ When looking across the aisle at someone on the sugar diet do they look back at me on the carnivore diet with the same bewilderment? I will drop by here and there tonight. 5 nights in a row at work with basically nothing to do and on my last night they actually expect productivity. The nerve of an employer to expect something in return. LOL Just kidding. I'd much rather have a lot to do as it will make the night go by faster. The last five nights have been dragging. Should be some good conversation. Scott

3 lbs chuck roast last night and another 3lbs tonight during live. Slow cooker method too busy tearing smoker apart and cleaning the mess before in-laws get here.

Honestly any porcelain coated cast iron is better than anything other than regular ol cast iron. Enjoy your new toy

And as of today, I hear the sugar diet is the answer. Got a suitcase of poptart to go on my fast!

Welcome on board! I check my blood ketones and glucose once a month, ketones are around 1,5-2,0 and glucose 4,8. Euro numbers. In February I had 3,0-4,0 ketone readings I've been on keto(vore)for six months now,I get max 10 g of carbs daily. I used to count macros for a while,now I just know I'm around 75-80% fat energy. If I go to strict carni I may get surprise toilet needs. Total carni also makes me lose hunger altogether, almost like losing appetite. Very little salad stuff seems to be enough to avoid toilet surprises and I enjoy food better,too. I have not been hungry in six months, I sometimes have to pay attention so that I'm eating enough. I did some fasts earlier but no more. Too little food is not good for me, even though fasting feels great. I have no reason to limit my calorie intake,rather the other way round is better in terms of weight loss and everthing. Most of meat available is lean here in Finland. Hard to keep fat % high with meat alone. I eat tuna in olive oil, feta, lots of fatty sausages. Bacon with eggs every day... Coffee is a mild toilet catalyst for me. But I have a mug or two every day, I add butter,coconut oil and cream. I did Atkins in early 2000's, then the name became Low Carb, now it's Keto(vore). I've been on and off during the years,mostly on but after heart problems (got an attack and a stent, also have a failure and cont. afib) the docs got me scared and I ate normally for a while. I gained 30 kilos and became very weak. I was suggested an open heart bypass surgery which I rejected. Now I'm off statins, cut 75 % off BP meds , lost 25 kg, can even run.... much stronger than in the last years. I can do things that make me sweat without my heart warning me now. All this progress has happened after I started keto(vore) six months ago. This is how much "salad" I had today. This small amount helps me have normal toilet practises. Oh,I have no gallbladder,that may or may not matter. I hope you can get this going in a nice and relaxed way. O

If you drive a car you have a basic understanding of traffic. Take a motorbike riding course and see how it feels. I have a professional teacher friend, sometimes people in their 60's start riding motorbikes. I still go to courses every now and then to sharpen up. Track practise days, slow riding, all kinds of practise. I had a bike break from 20 to 30 years. Then another break from 40 to 50. 62 now and my bike goes 200+ mph. I still prefer sportsbikes, I have had Harley and Guzzi cruisers, Honda enduros, 20+ bikes altogether, sometimes three different at once. I recommend motorbikes to everyone. Riding clears your mind in a way nothing else does. And it is very good exercise.

I do the same with my smartphone. Bacground turns sort of red at 6 PM, back to normal at 8 AM. I also put on a red light around 8 pm for a couple of hours in bedroom. And use bright light for an hour at daytime in our dark winter, summer is light almost 24/7 now so I'm using curtains at night now. I'd say that all this light yoga is helping me sleep full nights better than before. I have a history of working evenings and staying up all night for decades (musician) so sleeping full nights feels like luxury now. And no TV since last September.

Food noise is malnutrition

Mediterranean diet means nothing. It does not exist, think Turkey,Italy, France,Tunis... they have completely different food cultures. Just another "diet" that usually sells something like "whole grain". Ever been to Italy? It's all white wheat there. Bah. Other than that, very low carb keto(vore) has been good for me. It masks my heart problems and keeps me slim,healthy and happy.

I call it the Malady maintenance system.

Cures do not generate a profit, only sick patients do. Not that many years ago Coconut and palm oil was going to kill us all overnight. Now it's good for us.