Scott F.

Without the nicotine and caffeine your six hours may increase, maybe not a full 1.5 to 2 hours you are looking for, but I would guess it would be an increase.
Our sleep is nearly identical. I am a lifelong shift worker. I always have slept from around 9 to around 3AM when sleeping at night. If I am sleeping the daytime (which I sleep better during the day) I sleep from 9AM til about 4PM.
The difference for on carnivore is that when I wake, I am up. There is no rolling over and going back to sleep. Even my days off start about 4AM. I am one of those "weirdos" in the gym at 4:30AM.
My sleep is solid and I awake feeling well rested. I am probably in that 6-hour range as well.
As far as the pizza and the nine hours, that is well beyond me. Other than the stomach yelling at the brain saying, "I'm going to be here awhile with this extra stuff-keep him down for a couple extra hours".
I too drink milk. I don't drink a gallon a day and don't drink it every day but three to four times per week. When I was losing weight (95lbs over 12-13 months or so) anytime I drank milk it was like an automatic stall. One glass of milk seemed to stop my weight loss in its tracks. Once I started hovering around 95lbs lost I picked back up on the milk.
Good luck. Hopefully you can find those other two hours of sleep.
Scott

I'm the guiltiest but carnivore is automatically associated with weight loss and tons of people (like me) see it as another weight loss hack.
If the lead off was the health benefits that come from carnivore and not just health benefits from just losing weight, but carnivore itself, it would move even faster into the mainstream.
I still find myself leading off with "I'm on carnivore and lost........" when I should be talking about "I'm on carnivore and I have not taken medicine for NMO/SD for pain and inflammation since June of 24. My blood sugar is around 80 every day and my energy levels are constant throughout the day even as the work load increases, the ability to continue remains".
But, it is the weight loss that rings the loudest.
Scott

I just completed a 96 hour fast. I did a dry fast from Monday night to Wednesday night, drank some water with some salt, then continued to Friday night with 48 more hours of a water fast.
Energy levels stayed way up throughout the week. This is the first time fasting while working day shift. On Wednesday I did feel a little muscle fatigue/muscular endurance issues as I had to go from the first floor to the fourth floor and roof four or five time in an hour. I am sure being a little dehydrated played a part in that, having 56 birthdays probably contributed as well. I sat down to fill out some work orders and after that energy was solid the rest of the day.
Once I started rehydrating on Wednesday the Thursday and Friday energy levels were really high. The days were hectic and fast paced at work but the energy levels remained, maybe somewhere between really high and the steady energy I have gained from carnivore.
I am a little loose in the caboose after breaking the fast, again. But all in all, it went well.
My bloodwork is coming up in a couple of weeks and I am coupling that with the way I feel and have felt the last year with no NMO/SD day symptoms/issues. I am leaning toward no longer taking the infusions every six months. That is six to eight hours I can find something else to do and $3500-$3900 I can buy more meats. LOL
I credit my new found health to the carnivore lifestyle (I called it a carnivore diet for well over a year but I think now at 18-19 months it is a lifestyle now), fasting and working out. Just like anyone else, I might kick over graveyard dead at any time as nothing is promised, but these three things have me felling better than I have in 30+ years and in better health to boot.
For me it is a really good combination.
Scott

I just completed a 96 hour fast. I did a dry fast from Monday night to Wednesday night, drank some water with some salt, then continued to Friday night with 48 more hours of a water fast.
Energy levels stayed way up throughout the week. This is the first time fasting while working day shift. On Wednesday I did feel a little muscle fatigue/muscular endurance issues as I had to go from the first floor to the fourth floor and roof four or five time in an hour. I am sure being a little dehydrated played a part in that, having 56 birthdays probably contributed as well. I sat down to fill out some work orders and after that energy was solid the rest of the day.
Once I started rehydrating on Wednesday the Thursday and Friday energy levels were really high. The days were hectic and fast paced at work but the energy levels remained, maybe somewhere between really high and the steady energy I have gained from carnivore.
I am a little loose in the caboose after breaking the fast, again. But all in all, it went well.
My bloodwork is coming up in a couple of weeks and I am coupling that with the way I feel and have felt the last year with no NMO/SD day symptoms/issues. I am leaning toward no longer taking the infusions every six months. That is six to eight hours I can find something else to do and $3500-$3900 I can buy more meats. LOL
I credit my new found health to the carnivore lifestyle (I called it a carnivore diet for well over a year but I think now at 18-19 months it is a lifestyle now), fasting and working out. Just like anyone else, I might kick over graveyard dead at any time as nothing is promised, but these three things have me felling better than I have in 30+ years and in better health to boot.
For me it is a really good combination.
Scott

I'm as cheap as all get out.
Last week I was pouting like someone stole my puppy as I was checking out prices at my local market. Then mumbling/complaining to myself the whole time I was filling my basket. Then complained all the way home and the only thing that offset the complaints was the amazing ribeye that came off the grill.
The repeat. LOL
I can remember watching the weather for rain and every day it didn't rain was one more bale we had to buy the following winter. (or thereabouts) A pasture with good grass is worth its weight in gold.
I know Yellowstone was way over the top but I remember Kevin Costner saying 'we can only hope to break even so we can do it again next year' (in so many words). That's how we were for a lot of years. We would get three or four 'extras' and selling them bridged a lot of financial gaps. Most of the time the ones sold was as much we didn't have to feed them thru the winter as it was the price of the sale.
Great post. I hadn't thought like this in a very long time. Sometimes I miss it.
Scott

WOW! on the 11 lbs in a week. I did 8 once but that included a fast as well but 11 is super impressive.
I don't think there is any cookie-cutter advice on satiety and when someone will be hungry. We are different and our daily outputs are different. Hunger can come at just about anytime for anyone. What helped me during the early months was drinking water. If I felt the least bit hungry I would drink some water. Most of the time the hunger subsided with water. If the hunger persisted after the water I would eat.
Those times varied and in time the hunger stretched to 24-30 hours.
I didn't really snack after I started carnivore. Maybe the water counts? not sure. LOL. I would say a spoon of peanut butter is not going to be the end of the world as long as it does not trigger the cravings for more carbs/sugars. Almost like a gateway drug. I have read where people cook hamburger patties and leave them in the refrigerator for snacking purposes.
Great progress. Good luck as you continue.
Scott

Activity level also plays a role.
There is more fat in the blood at any given time but it is moving and being used for energy. Increase the activity with things as basic as walking and those numbers can adjust some but within the numbers there is a lot more efficiency of fat intake/fat used/fat stored.
Scott

I use Quest Diagnostics.
As far as bloodwork I get tested every three months between work and my Neurologist. I see him every six months and work requires a physical every six months. For the longest they landed about three months apart. I would just ask the Neurologist to add the lipid panel and testosterone.
When my immune system numbers started to improved, I wanted to see them more regularly, so I contacted Quest Diagnostics for my ImG and ImA numbers. It was pretty simple. We have two in a couple of WalMarts near me so access was easy enough.
Good luck and continued successes.
Scott

I was not a fan of my son's pellet smoker when he first got it but it grew on me and now is sort of a got to for butts/roasts etc.
Anything bigger it is the pig cooker and the fire barrel.
I also will throw something extra on the grill when cooking to have for the following couple-three days. It helps me out a lot on the busy days between shift work and rushing home to feed all the animals in the dark.
Scott

I broke the dry fast at 48 hours. Legs starting to feel more normal.
I had planned to go another 48 of water fasting but my shift surprised me with a steak dinner tonight.
I had to break the fast with a nice sized T-Bone.
Thankful for the group I have working with me.
Scott

Around 45-46 hours deep into my first dry fast.
I am starting to feel it now in my legs. Feet a bit tingly and my thighs/quads feel rubbery/spongey. Thus far I haven't been hungry and really have not felt much different than a water fast. Urine has not really changed color, maybe a shade darker.
I think I am going to drink water tonight at the 48 hour mark and then decide if I end it at 72 or 96 tomorrow.
With the lifting and eating the extra protein I had gained from 211 to 222 over the last month or so. I lost about 7 1/2 pounds in 48 hours on this fast so far. Mostly water as I have been to the bathroom a lot, at least more than usual.
Feeling the energy this time too just on somewhat wobbly legs, if that makes any sense at all.
Still working on breaking the fast but I guess I will eventually get there.
Big fan of the fast, even bigger fan of the fast being coupled with carnivore.
Scott

I'm that guy that walks up when the last good deal was just sold. LOL
A buddy of mine just bought a chuck roll and instead of cutting up for the individual steaks, "Denver" and "Ribeye", he just sliced the chuck roll as it lay. He said he was happy with the way the steaks turned out.
I'm thinking of giving that a run in the next month or so.
This weekend was our first frost and the group killed hogs. I will stop by a get my 60-70lbs of sausage tomorrow.
I never do the math on the sausage because I am almost sure I am losing money, LOL But it falls into the "it tastes amazing and I know where it came from" category.
Enjoy babbling. LOL
Scott

If I were a world class athlete I think i could debate this a tad bit better.
I am getting to the above average mark for the average 56 year old. Meat and fat will serve me just fine and provide all the energy I need, both for the day to day as well as my lifting/walking/working out. I have not, nor do I anticipate taking things to that level.
However, since I have not gotten crazy-go-get'em energy from meats and fats I have developed a steady energy that lasts all day for me now.
I don't see crazy bounce off the wall energy just showing up anytime soon.
I am not saying fat can't be the answer but I am saying I see the theory and based on me, I can see where it could work. But also based on me I am not physically challenging the limitations of fat.
I know one person who uses a couple sweet potatoes on Thursdays before he does what I consider a long a pretty much grueling workout on Fridays and the rest of the week strict carnivore. As soon as this topic popped a few weeks ago I have looked for him in the gym for some insight.
Still a very interesting topic for me.
Scott

I have read it both ways, but I think that lands on the intensity and duration of the exercise more so than the different fuel sources.
A person pushing themselves to their maximum effort every session could answer that question better than me as my exercising, lifting and walking is effective but let's just say 'I don't leave it all on the field every time out'.
The paper and log analogy is spot on. The paper will always burn faster and possibly hotter for a brief moment and once the log is burning the steady burn and the hot coals remain constant unless a piece breaks off and there may be a spurt of burn/flame but nothing like the spike of the paper.
If I were a super-duper athlete doing super-duper work, I can see the need for that spurt of energy to get thru the workout. What I see as being the true advantage of the scenario is that when the paper flames up and is gone the steadiness of the fire from the log remains constant. it is not like the fire dims or goes out without the continual adding of the paper. If that makes any sense at all.
If at any point my workouts ramp to the point I am at an energy deficit I could see this as an option. The workouts and the loads are ever increasing but the "log" is holding me just fine right now. LOL
Still a very interesting topic.
Scott

That is sort of how it works. It takes time and then it feels "all of a sudden".
Congrats. I'm in the same boat. I can't see eating another way after all the positives I have had since going carnivore.
I guess my biggest fear is with my luck I will choose the very thing that caused me issues in the past. My luck ruins like that. LOL
I'm pretty much going with the 'not going to rock the boat' approach to my current eating plan.
Scott

They already have reacted.
In 2020 Harvard released a study that showed the overwhelming majority of the test subjects on a carnivore/really low carb diet showed benefits pretty much across the board, from weight loss being the obvious, to inflammation reduction, relief from various gut issues and others.
The response triggered a ripple in the research community which brought back studies from the past that showed the benefits of a red meat diet and even further back to what is called now a proper human diet.
Then in 2024 Harvard reversed its opinion on carnivore and the benefits of the lifestyle/way of eating.
The difference between 2020 and 2024? A multi-billion dollar donation from the gate keepers. One it promotes his attempts at lab grown meats (Big Tech) and keeps the processed food industry as the primary source of nutrition for many (Big Food) which in turn keeps us all sick and unhealthy (Big Pharma).
I'm not all into conspiracies and I don't think this is conspiracy in that sense. I think it is as simple as greed and the desire to control and have power. I have not contributed to the processed food industry in well over a year. I have not taken any medicine since June 2024. Odds are I have had my last infusion. Just me alone had clipped those groups for thousands (infusion is $57,000 twice per year. Processed and junk food was $425 a month multiplied by 12 is another ~$5000.
If just me alone can remove over $100,000 from the BIG PICTURE equation, just imagine the impact of just the people on this forum. Then imagine the carnivore/keto community as a whole.
The billions of dollars was an investment into our future, some profit and some get sick and the ones that act out are silenced thru marketing and mass media. It is a business model that has worked amazingly well since the 50's.
Scott

I have read it both ways, but I think that lands on the intensity and duration of the exercise more so than the different fuel sources.
A person pushing themselves to their maximum effort every session could answer that question better than me as my exercising, lifting and walking is effective but let's just say 'I don't leave it all on the field every time out'.
The paper and log analogy is spot on. The paper will always burn faster and possibly hotter for a brief moment and once the log is burning the steady burn and the hot coals remain constant unless a piece breaks off and there may be a spurt of burn/flame but nothing like the spike of the paper.
If I were a super-duper athlete doing super-duper work, I can see the need for that spurt of energy to get thru the workout. What I see as being the true advantage of the scenario is that when the paper flames up and is gone the steadiness of the fire from the log remains constant. it is not like the fire dims or goes out without the continual adding of the paper. If that makes any sense at all.
If at any point my workouts ramp to the point I am at an energy deficit I could see this as an option. The workouts and the loads are ever increasing but the "log" is holding me just fine right now. LOL
Still a very interesting topic.
Scott

They already have reacted.
In 2020 Harvard released a study that showed the overwhelming majority of the test subjects on a carnivore/really low carb diet showed benefits pretty much across the board, from weight loss being the obvious, to inflammation reduction, relief from various gut issues and others.
The response triggered a ripple in the research community which brought back studies from the past that showed the benefits of a red meat diet and even further back to what is called now a proper human diet.
Then in 2024 Harvard reversed its opinion on carnivore and the benefits of the lifestyle/way of eating.
The difference between 2020 and 2024? A multi-billion dollar donation from the gate keepers. One it promotes his attempts at lab grown meats (Big Tech) and keeps the processed food industry as the primary source of nutrition for many (Big Food) which in turn keeps us all sick and unhealthy (Big Pharma).
I'm not all into conspiracies and I don't think this is conspiracy in that sense. I think it is as simple as greed and the desire to control and have power. I have not contributed to the processed food industry in well over a year. I have not taken any medicine since June 2024. Odds are I have had my last infusion. Just me alone had clipped those groups for thousands (infusion is $57,000 twice per year. Processed and junk food was $425 a month multiplied by 12 is another ~$5000.
If just me alone can remove over $100,000 from the BIG PICTURE equation, just imagine the impact of just the people on this forum. Then imagine the carnivore/keto community as a whole.
The billions of dollars was an investment into our future, some profit and some get sick and the ones that act out are silenced thru marketing and mass media. It is a business model that has worked amazingly well since the 50's.
Scott

I wouldn't change anything. It is a part of the story.
"almost quit" can be translated any number of ways. Just like the post above on 'carbs and energy' if I read about it, then post "I think this could work" I might give it a try and then decide my current path is working.
Well, then "I almost quit" carnivore. LOL
Tons of people have started carnivore and a very high percentage have quit. My son started, then me, then my wife, then two guys at work. Me and one other guy at work are still carnivore. I'm strict and he occasionally indulges, maybe once or twice per month. Depending on how one defines carnivore in my group 80% of people who start end up quitting. Those percentages sort of indicate the other 20% has 'almost quit' at some point. LOL
Scott

I have read it both ways, but I think that lands on the intensity and duration of the exercise more so than the different fuel sources.
A person pushing themselves to their maximum effort every session could answer that question better than me as my exercising, lifting and walking is effective but let's just say 'I don't leave it all on the field every time out'.
The paper and log analogy is spot on. The paper will always burn faster and possibly hotter for a brief moment and once the log is burning the steady burn and the hot coals remain constant unless a piece breaks off and there may be a spurt of burn/flame but nothing like the spike of the paper.
If I were a super-duper athlete doing super-duper work, I can see the need for that spurt of energy to get thru the workout. What I see as being the true advantage of the scenario is that when the paper flames up and is gone the steadiness of the fire from the log remains constant. it is not like the fire dims or goes out without the continual adding of the paper. If that makes any sense at all.
If at any point my workouts ramp to the point I am at an energy deficit I could see this as an option. The workouts and the loads are ever increasing but the "log" is holding me just fine right now. LOL
Still a very interesting topic.
Scott

I wouldn't change anything. It is a part of the story.
"almost quit" can be translated any number of ways. Just like the post above on 'carbs and energy' if I read about it, then post "I think this could work" I might give it a try and then decide my current path is working.
Well, then "I almost quit" carnivore. LOL
Tons of people have started carnivore and a very high percentage have quit. My son started, then me, then my wife, then two guys at work. Me and one other guy at work are still carnivore. I'm strict and he occasionally indulges, maybe once or twice per month. Depending on how one defines carnivore in my group 80% of people who start end up quitting. Those percentages sort of indicate the other 20% has 'almost quit' at some point. LOL
Scott

That is sort of how it works. It takes time and then it feels "all of a sudden".
Congrats. I'm in the same boat. I can't see eating another way after all the positives I have had since going carnivore.
I guess my biggest fear is with my luck I will choose the very thing that caused me issues in the past. My luck ruins like that. LOL
I'm pretty much going with the 'not going to rock the boat' approach to my current eating plan.
Scott

Very true.
The 'harvests' way back when was minimal in comparison. We spray, we hybrid plants, we preserve all in efforts to maximum the volume, make it last long enough to ship it all over the world.
Today's tomato is not yesterday's tomato by any stretch of the imagination.
Scott

I'm with Geezy. I consider myself carnivore (I now think I am in a carnivore lifestyle after 17 months as for the longest I considered it a carnivore diet-changes with time) but I do get some sugars in here and there with the protein supplements I am using. For me, the tad bits of sugar here and there have boosted my appetite.
I have more than surpassed the weight loss goals and the bonus plan was I hit a bunch of metabolic and overall health achievements that I didn't know were possible when I first started. Sort of like the bonus plan.
I believe in individual continual improvements. Most come to carnivore off some sort of dumpster diet, or from a dumpster diet to a keto type diet and then on to carnivore. We all vary. Once we have made improvements there may be some adjustments to continue health improvements or get a person to a spot where they can 'enjoy' other foods (responsibly and maybe in moderation, but enjoy them the same) and still eat primary carnivore.
Our ancestors ate fruits and vegetables and plant matter regularly when they were available or in season. Granted they didn't spray them and color them and preserve them to ship them all over the world year around but they did eat them. I am sure we could do the same and be very healthy.
I have done so well on the pretty much strict carnivore I don't see me changing anytime soon. I am not the luckiest guy in the world and I am sure which ever carb I choose will be the one that triggers my auto immune issues. Somedays, I just 'got it like that'.
I do see many bailing on the lifestyle but like Geezy said, a lot of those videos turn out to be click bait. And, for most, click bait works cause they keep doing it. LOL
Scott

True.
I use them for protein supplementation/boost appetite (a tad bit of sugar) but nothing replaces a good steak. LOL
Scott