Asmaa

@Scott F. I’ve taken that into consideration, thank you so much, Scott.

@Bob Before I knew about Cystatin C, I was a bit afraid, but not after that. And your experience gave me the courage to do so 🙏🏻.

I am on my second stint of the lion diet. The first time I genuinely felt better. I have an autoimmune disease (NMO/SD) which is similar to MS. The "all-red meat" diet in the 50's was used with a lot of success for MS patients. This second stint I am not so sure I feel anything different after a month or so. I had bloodwork done just before switching from carnivore to the Lion version and I will have more at the end of September. Maybe I see the needle move in some of my results then but right now, sort of feels the same as regular carnivore.
@Bob I can't speak to the kidneys and protein with any real experience, but this is what I am thinking on more of a general basis and it goes to previous conversations/threads on wading thru the medical research that is now readily available. Is protein bad for the kidneys? I think not so much if you have healthy kidneys to start with and you have a diet and a lifestyle that promotes the positive use of proteins. I think the same with cholesterol. Is LDL and higher cholesterol a bad thing? I think probably not, if on a diet somewhere between keto and carnivore (and maybe closer to carnivore)
If we just eat a load of crap, and amongst that load is a lot of protein, I am sure that is taxing on the kidneys. Since red meat and a high fat diet is absolutely taboo to the majority of the world, especially the medical professions, The first conclusion is that it is the protein (red meat) that is damaging the kidneys. Which, just like LDL and heart disease, could be technically true.
If we eat a diet that keeps us close to the ketosis mark and even pushes us into the lower ends of ketosis on a regular basis, we become fat adaptive. We are using the fat, and it is not laying around in stores. Higher fat in the blood stream can be expected but it is moving to be used vs. being stored. Same with the kidneys and the proteins. The kidney is fine with protein until it has to work thru a ton of 'crap' before the proteins get there and if dehydrated, it is another ball game altogether. But like LDL, proteins (meat/fats) are the easiest culprit to sell.
I think also that is why the health issues that get fixed with carnivore is such a broad spectrum. Sometimes I even forget the health is coming from what we are not eating much more so than the fats/proteins that we are eating. If I fill my gas tank with half gas and half water, I am going to have all kinds of problems. If I drain the tank and fill it up with just gas most would think the gas fixed the problems when in reality, not adding water is the true fix. (dumbed it way down-but that is how my brain works)
Babbling at work waiting for the day to get rolling.
Scott

I don't remember which stage of chronic kidney disease you are in, but remember that when you increase your protein consumption, you will like see an increase in your creatinine and BUN. Both of these are waste products from the breakdown of proteins, and when they run high your doctor is going to be upset. Your creatinine is used to calculate an eGFR, and the higher the creatinine goes, the lower the eGFR will go. This will make the doctor think that your kidneys are getting worse.
This is where eating carnivore or lion diet with CKD can be tricky. It will look like things are getting worse when reading those standard tests, but they might not be getting worse at all. The extra protein is skewing the results.
One other metric that is good for comparison is getting a Cystatin C. Cystatin C is another waste product but this one is NOT skewed by diet or exercise. They can calculate an eGFR with Cystatin C as well. For example, my last eGFR with creatinine was 12, but my eGFR with Cystatin C was 24.
And then you can monitor urine test results and more. You may want to test every 3 months to see how things change over time.

Exactly
So this week, I bravely decided to start the lion diet, and what's even more exciting is that my appointment is in two weeks, when I'll get to see my test results again.

I was that kind of mom too. My eldest daughter eats what I prepare, as well as the food my mom makes—like pastries and rice. But my younger kids have become more picky and refuse to eat with me, and that really exhausts me and makes me upset 😆
Maybe they just need a little more time before joining us.

The mainstream medical advice is to avoid protein if you have impaired kidney function, and I don't think this is true. I've been carnivore since May of 2023 and for a while I was actually making minor improvements in my kidneys markers. I did have a set back when my primary doctor prescribed me fenfibrate for my triglycerides, but I am slowly recovering from that mistake.
I have read studies that pretty much debunk the idea that protein is hard on the kidneys, and I am willing to test the idea that this is true even when I have impaired kidneys. To date, which is 2.5 years now, I am still convinced that my carnivore diet has done no harm to me or my kidneys whatsoever.

We sound crazy to them for sure, lol.
I was that person who was super into vegetables. I raised my kids trying to force vegetables on them. It was the way I was raised. Now each child is not super fond of meat. They both eat some meat, but the daughter prefers chicken and the son is still addicted to pasta.
If only I could turn back time and tell them "You have to eat your meat" instead.

It's interesting. Usually I'm the one who starts arguing with my family about food. Imagine how they looked at me when I told them they don’t need to eat vegetables 🤣. I was that person who used to eat them frequently in every meal and even encouraged others to choose them as the main dish for their meals 😂

😂😂😂
Yes sure, the hump is just fat. I'm from Oman 🇴🇲

It's interesting. Usually I'm the one who starts arguing with my family about food. Imagine how they looked at me when I told them they don’t need to eat vegetables 🤣. I was that person who used to eat them frequently in every meal and even encouraged others to choose them as the main dish for their meals 😂

It's interesting. Usually I'm the one who starts arguing with my family about food. Imagine how they looked at me when I told them they don’t need to eat vegetables 🤣. I was that person who used to eat them frequently in every meal and even encouraged others to choose them as the main dish for their meals 😂

At 26 I was in a bad car wreck that left me with career changing, lifelong injuries so I can definitely empathize with you.
Sleep apnea. From what I’ve seen from going to my sleep doctor, most of the patients are overweight. With you being lean I don’t know if any of what I say will apply to you but this is what it’s done for me. I was put on a bipap machine for my “moderate/severe “ apnea. I’ve been a carnivore for 171 days now and I believe it has helped my apnea. Going into the settings on my machine I’ve turned the inhale way down to we’re I hardly notice and have done the same for the exhale. It feels more like normal breathing to me now and is much more comfortable. My hourly incidents are down to .4 or less. Some nights even zero. At my next appointment with my doctor I’m going to see if I can get another sleep study done and see if I can get off this machine.

Your pain. I feel for you. I’ve had many injuries and surgeries in my 67 years and I won’t go into great detail on them all but suffice it to say, there’s been so many that I have a hard time remembering them all. I’ve had a protruding compressed disk in my back since I was in my thirties and then in my fifties I developed spinal stenosis. I end up having surgery for both issues. While it definitely helped it left me with massive inflammation and throughout my back. It got so bad that I couldn’t walk a hundred yards without support. I had so much pain in my right knee that I couldn’t get anymore shots in the knee and the doctors were taking replacement. My right hip was so full of arthritis they were talking about replacing it too. My left hip was replaced in 2000. I was a mechanic for 41 years and my right hand hurt so much that I couldn’t close it to make a fist and holding onto my tools was difficult.
Within one month on strict carnivore most of my pain was gone. Within 6 weeks I was walking 2.5 miles briskly with no pain. My inflammation and arthritis are gone.
I can make a fist again. That’s the up side. The downside, carnivore will not fix the disk that is still compressed and protruding. I will always have to be careful of how I use my back and it can still get to hurting pretty good if I overuse it but the difference between then and now is nothing short of miraculous for me. While carnivore will definitely help with inflammation I don’t believe I will fix damaged joints but it is a massive improvement. My knee doesn’t hurt anymore and neither does my hip.
I can’t speak on your warts but I’ve heart that it some people have had positive results.
Whether you’re overweight or normal weight, this carnivore is lifestyle way of eating that is meant to heal your body and make it metabolically healthy. It is the way we were designed to fuel our bodies.
Man was never meant to eat sugar, grains and seed oils. Fruits and vegetables were only meant to be used as starvation food.
Animal products are all the human body needs to function properly.


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Well you can do what you want 😉. Paul Saladino went from Carnivore to Animal-Based and he eats the fruitage of plants, but won't eat any stems, leaves, and roots. He will argue that plants are toxic because they don't want to be eaten, but their fruitage isn't because they WANT animals to eat the fruitage and spread their seed when they eliminate waste. I do agree with him. And so "fruitage" can include vegetables like cucumber, zucchini, squash, etc.
Since I am trying to lose weight at the moment, I am not eating any plant matter. But when I reach my goal weight, I will revert to more of a ketovore/animal-based diet, at least for a trial run and see how it goes.
Maybe, maybe not. The best thing you can do to get rid of inflammation is an elimination diet, and carnivore or lion diet is the ultimate elimination diet. I would stick it though for at least 90 days to see if that sleep apnea and pain will subside. Then, if you want, you can start adding back one thing at a time each week to see how your body reacts to it. If you add back a something and your inflammation or pain returns then you know not to eat that particular item.
In your other topic you said you were eating twice a day. I would add a 3rd meal.
For example, lets say right now you are doing 2MAD 375g + 375g to get your 750g. Try 275g + 275g + 275g to bring it up to 825g.

If you really want to eat carnivore to heal your body then just do carnivore. Eating fruits and vegetables is not carnivore. At best you might be able to call it ketovore.
It may sound like semantics or hair splitting but it’s really not.
You are only a week into this way of eating and already looking for a way off of it.
Set your goal. Then set your plan to reach that goal and then don’t deviate from it for at least 90 days or until you reach that goal. First heal yourself.
Don’t complicate it or overthink it.
Fatty meat, salt, water. It’s simple.


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During tonight's Zoom Meeting we were goofing around with Bing AI and Google's new AI called Bard. I asked Bing AI to do the following...
"write a story about how the carnivore diet saved the world from chronic illnesses"
And to my amusement this was the response... 
The year is 2030. The world is plagued by chronic illnesses such as diabetes, obesity, autoimmune diseases, and depression. The health care system is overwhelmed and ineffective. People are desperate for a solution.
One day, a group of scientists announce a breakthrough discovery: they have found the ultimate diet for human health and longevity. They call it the carnivore diet. It consists of eating only animal foods, such as meat, eggs, organ meats, and dairy. They claim that this diet eliminates plant toxins and antinutrients that cause inflammation and disease. They also claim that this diet improves insulin sensitivity, gut health, heart health, testosterone levels, mental clarity, and weight loss.
The news spreads like wildfire. Millions of people around the world decide to try the carnivore diet. They are amazed by the results. They feel more energetic, happier, stronger, and healthier than ever before. They lose excess fat and gain lean muscle mass. They reverse their chronic conditions and reduce their medication needs. They report improved mood, cognition, libido, and sleep quality.
The carnivore diet becomes a global phenomenon. It sparks a revolution in the food industry, agriculture, and environmentalism. People demand more ethical and sustainable animal farming practices. They boycott processed foods, grains, sugars, and vegetable oils. They support local farmers and ranchers who produce high-quality animal products. They reduce their carbon footprint and water consumption by eating less plants.
The carnivore diet also creates a cultural shift. People become more connected to nature and their ancestral roots. They appreciate the value of animal life and honor their sacrifice. They celebrate their health and vitality with feasts and festivals. They form communities and networks of carnivore dieters who share recipes, tips, and experiences.
The carnivore diet saves the world from chronic illnesses and restores human health and happiness. It is hailed as the greatest discovery in the history of nutrition science. It is the ultimate way of eating for humans. It is the carnivore way.

 
 

It's not necessarily a problem if you're not feeling hungry and don't have an appetite. It's okay to eat when you feel hungry enough and listen to your body's cues. Just make sure you're still getting enough nutrients and staying hydrated. Trust your instincts and adjust your eating patterns accordingly.

Those are large meals, but I think you are doing fine. Although it is often said that there is no need to count calories on carnivore, we can still use it for reference. The average adult requires about 2000 calories per day. I know people who do OMAD (one meal a day) and when they sit down for that one meal, boy do they make it count. You basically want to get at least 1g of protein per pound of your goal weight, and then plenty of fat for energy. You are probably getting that with what you are eating. The foods you describe are going to be nutrient dense, so it's not surprising if you don't feel hungry.
If you were only eating 1000 calories a day I would warn you that portion controlling is going to throw off your metabolism and slow down your weight loss. But it doesn't sound like you are portion controlling. Eat until you are comfortably stuffed (not uncomfortably stuffed).
If you are happy with one meal a day, then you're probably fine with those hearty portions. If you want to do 2 meals a day, then maybe scale them back so you are spreading that 2000 calories (that we don't count) across 2 meals instead of one.
(And remember we are just using 2000 calories as an example. Maybe you eat 1800. Maybe you eat 2800. This will vary per person).
 

Welcome Billy,
There is definitely a balance to be had. On the one hand, many people intentionally practice fasting, either intermittently by eating within a certain window of time each day (your feasting window) and then not eating for the remainder of that day (your fasting window). Most people start with 16/8, which means 16 hours straight of no food (you sleep for about 8 of these) and then eating as needed within that 8-hour window. Others will shrink their feasting window and do 18/6 or 20/4, etc. And then there are those who like to do 24, 36, 48 hours of fasting or more. 
I broke my ankle in the May and knowing my physical activity would suffer I decided then to go full carnivore, 2 meals a day, on a 16/8 intermittent fasting schedule. I was satisfied and continued to lose 10 more pounds while I couldn't put weight on the leg. I made those 2 meals count. Breakfast was several eggs and a large portion of breakfast meat, and dinner was usually a minimum 16oz striploin steak or 1 lb. of ground beef.
The purpose of fasting is for healing. After about 16-24 hours your body starts experiencing autophagy, and it starts breaking down unnecessary cells for energy. This cleans up dead cells, fat cells, unnecessary cells, etc, while preserving important cells like muscle and organs.
Now on the other hand, under eating can signal to the body that there is a famine, and so the body will lower metabolism to conserve resources. This is the body's natural way of getting us through difficult times until food was more abundant. With a lowered metabolism, the weight comes off slower or stops coming off and you hit a plateau. When this happens, you need to eat more (maybe gradually) to signal to your body that the famine is over.
 
As a general rule, you want to eat 2-3 meals a day until you are comfortably full, with no snacking in-between, whether you are carnivore or ketovore. I woudn't necessarily force a meal down, but I may make sure that meal or meals are nice and hardy.
What do you eat in a typical day now that you don't feel hunger and find yourself skipping meals?

Welcome aboard @Lou !

 
Obviously you would want zero-carb sugar-free sweetener so there is no calories and minimal impact on insulin response. You will get answers in both directions here. A carnivore purist/zealot will be quick to remind you that such drinks aren't carnivore and humans didn't drink such things before the last century, and for a certainty straight up water is probably better for you. Some will also say you will experience better and faster healing if you can cut them out.
But this is something you can experiment with on yourself. I have yet to be able to give up certain drinks completely. I still have a cup of tea in the morning with Splenda. I had a huge box of Splenda from Sam's Club and when it is gone, I will switch to Stevia (in light of the recent University of North Carolina study that Splenda may alter your DNA). I still drink some diet soda, and maybe a Propel or sugar free lemonade. But I have been making a conscious effort to cut back on those and drink more water. I'm still down almost 40 lbs and have reversed a few health issues.
The weight loss has slowed down considerably though (but not stopped), and I have heard that one of the many things that can cause a weight-loss plateau is artificial sweeteners. I guess many people, as soon as something sweet tasting hits the tongue, has what they call a cephalic phase insulin response, meaning that their pancreas spurts out some insulin into the bloodstream in anticipation of sugars/carbs coming down the pipe. Clearly, one of the reasons why Keto and Carnivore works is because we minimize our carb intake and keep our insulin levels low. Certain artificial sweeteners trigger this response, while others don't.
Try challenging yourself to have one cup of regular water for every flavored water you consume. I also find that I prefer water with a ton of ice in it, so that it's crisp and very cold.

I raise the lambs myself. We have cattle, sheep, a goat, horses and chickens. We are selling off our sheep though and we kept three lambs back. Two of them were ready for slaughter and the third one will be ready around May.
After our lamb meat supply starts getting thin then we’ll just buy one from someone local and feed it out. I like raising them but I’m tired of fighting the coyotes over them.

And yes, I am a hunter. In fact, the picture in my avatar is from when I was down in south Texas bow hunting javelina.
The majority of the meat we eat is from something I’ve raised or something I’ve hunted.


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Got back two lambs from the processors today. Freezer isn’t completely full yet. Gotta save some room for venison too.

 
 
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Ironically, I started my carnivore journey in the hospital when I broke my ankle. They actually showed me a menu and I was able to order sausage, bacon, and eggs. I was in recovery post-op, and that was day 1 for me 🙂

Yes he did. That’s how I got started on carnivore. He explained to me about the toxins in plants and why they have them. He went on to explain why seeds and seed oils are so bad for us. He gave me several resources to study for myself and make up my own mind and when I did it all made sense to me. Perfect sense.
I figured I’d try it for 30 days and see what happens. I had so many improvements in that 30 days that I did another 30 days. It just kept getting better so I continued for 30 more. After 90 days I was healed of nearly every ailment that had plagued me for decades. Now 162 days later I know for a fact in my most inner being that this not only the right way to eat but it is the only way I will ever eat.
I told my wife the other day, that I’m so committed to this lifestyle now that if I’m ever in the hospital again that she’s going to be kept busy bringing me food to eat because I’m not eating the “heart healthy” food they try to shove on us.


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So, a conversation with my son, who started me on carnivore for my health.
Son: “Dad, why do you eat vegetables?”
Me: “Well, because they’re good for you and I like them. “
Son: “Well they’re really not all that good for you but we’ll discuss that in a minute. So let me ask you this. Have you always liked vegetables?”
Me: “No, I hated them as a kid but your mother helped me learn to like them.”
Son: “Is there any vegetable you can eat without putting something on it or can you eat just like it is?”
Me: “No, I don’t think I could eat any of them just by themselves.”
Son: “So what do you like to put on them?”
Me: “Oh you know, butter, cheese, salad dressing, bacon, lots of seasonings.”
Son: “So what your saying is, it’s not the vegetables that you like, it’s what you put on the vegetables that you like.”
 
Ding,ding,ding,ding,ding went the bell in my head.
The majority of the toppings that I used on veggies was an animal product or sugary and that was the only way I could make them palatable.
 
My awakening is that if I can’t eat it plain without putting something on it to make it palatable then my body doesn’t need it.
 
As I heard Old Guy Carnivore say, “Food is no longer for pleasure and entertainment but is now for nutrition and health.
 
 
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Thank you for sharing your story Bob! I recall seeing those books at stores when I was a kid in the late 90's, I believe my aunt had one of those books too. I've heard great things about the Carnivore diet, and a few different people I follow on Youtube lost weight and have been keeping it off too!