Supplementation

[Guest Sephiroth]

I am planning to start carnivore. I am 6 feet and close to 300 lbs. After adjusting to new fuel source I might go back to training powerbuilding. What about supplementation? People claim that supplements are not needed. But I want to ask separately about each supplement:
1. Fiber - I think that fiber might not be needed on carnivore.
2. Probiotics/Prebiotics - I think they are not needed on carnivore.
3. Butyrate/Butyric acid - Would it be useful or would I get it enough on the diet.
4. BHB Ketones supplement - Would I benefit from it during transition process and after or is it worthless? I heard/read that it might be good together with Butyrate/Butyric acid.
5. Methylsulfonylmethane - not sure about this supplement. Should I take it or will I get it from diet or is it not needed?
6. Glucosamine - not sure about this supplement. Should I take it or will I get it from diet or is it not needed?
7. Collagen - should I supplement it or will I get enough from diet (bone broth)?
8. Glycine - should I supplement it or will I get enough from diet (bone broth)?
9. Q10 - should I supplement it or will I get enough of it from meat (heart)?
10. Minerals - this one might be needed especially in the beginning but will it be needed later into diet?
11. Omega 3s - I think it might not be needed on carnivore.
12. Vitamin A - I think it might not be needed.
13. Vitamin B (group) - I think it might not be needed.
14. Vitamin C - not sure. People say that due to not consuming carbs carnivores need less of it.
15. Vitamin D (+ K) - should I supplement vitamin D or D+K or none? Some supplement only with D but some say that D needs K so they supplement together. But on carnivore I should have enough K. But I am not sure is having enough is the same as taking them together. Some argue they must be taken together, is that true? If yes would I need to take D while eating food with K or better take both in supplement form or I need none in supplement form?
16. Vitamin E - the stupidest one for me. There are tocopherols and tocotrienols. Although body stores a-tocopherol but some newer research proven that tocotrienols are better and tocopherols are bad/worse compared to tocotrienols and that (too much) tocopherols can reduce/hinder good potential from tocotrienols. So should I take tocotrienols and avoid tocopherols or no supplementation of any vitamin E form is needed. Also I read that vitamin E reacts with vitamin K and is antagonist of vitamin K; that vitamin K thickens blood and vitamin E thins blood. Not sure what to think about it. Are antioxidants that needed on carnivore?
17. https://health.selfdecode.com/blog/carnivore-diet/ What you think about this?
18. Geranylgeraniol - what is that? Should it also be supplemented? It is often mentioned with Q10 and vitamin E. Is it antioxidant?

[Guest Sephiroth]

I am planning to start carnivore. I am 6 feet and close to 300 lbs. After adjusting to new fuel source I might go back to training powerbuilding. What about supplementation? People claim that supplements are not needed. But I want to ask separately about each supplement:
1. Fiber - I think that fiber might not be needed on carnivore.
2. Probiotics/Prebiotics - I think they are not needed on carnivore.
3. Butyrate/Butyric acid - Would it be useful or would I get it enough on the diet.
4. BHB Ketones supplement - Would I benefit from it during transition process and after or is it worthless? I heard/read that it might be good together with Butyrate/Butyric acid.
5. Methylsulfonylmethane - not sure about this supplement. Should I take it or will I get it from diet or is it not needed?
6. Glucosamine - not sure about this supplement. Should I take it or will I get it from diet or is it not needed?
7. Collagen - should I supplement it or will I get enough from diet (bone broth)?
8. Glycine - should I supplement it or will I get enough from diet (bone broth)?
9. Q10 - should I supplement it or will I get enough of it from meat (heart)?
10. Minerals - this one might be needed especially in the beginning but will it be needed later into diet?
11. Omega 3s - I think it might not be needed on carnivore.
12. Vitamin A - I think it might not be needed.
13. Vitamin B (group) - I think it might not be needed.
14. Vitamin C - not sure. People say that due to not consuming carbs carnivores need less of it.
15. Vitamin D (+ K) - should I supplement vitamin D or D+K or none? Some supplement only with D but some say that D needs K so they supplement together. But on carnivore I should have enough K. But I am not sure is having enough is the same as taking them together. Some argue they must be taken together, is that true? If yes would I need to take D while eating food with K or better take both in supplement form or I need none in supplement form?
16. Vitamin E - the stupidest one for me. There are tocopherols and tocotrienols. Although body stores a-tocopherol but some newer research proven that tocotrienols are better and tocopherols are bad/worse compared to tocotrienols and that (too much) tocopherols can reduce/hinder good potential from tocotrienols. So should I take tocotrienols and avoid tocopherols or no supplementation of any vitamin E form is needed. Also I read that vitamin E reacts with vitamin K and is antagonist of vitamin K; that vitamin K thickens blood and vitamin E thins blood. Not sure what to think about it. Are antioxidants that needed on carnivore?
17. https://health.selfdecode.com/blog/carnivore-diet/ What you think about this?
18. Geranylgeraniol - what is that? Should it also be supplemented? It is often mentioned with Q10 and vitamin E. Is it antioxidant?

[Bob]

Welcome Sephiroth. I dig the name, as I am currently playing Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth

I'm going to copy and paste your list and replace your comments with mine...

1. Fiber -Not needed, like never.
2. Probiotics/Prebiotics - Not needed. Carnivore fixes gut microbiome.
3. Butyrate/Butyric acid - Butter is the best source. Butyrate and Butter come from the same root word.
4. BHB Ketones supplement - Might fast track adaptation.
5. Methylsulfonylmethane - Provides sulfer. There is sulfer in meat, fish, eggs, and organs.
6. Glucosamine - Probably not needed. Supplements are synthetic or made from shellfish shells. You can find it in cartilage and bones of animals, so maybe bone broth would deliver you some, as opposed to eating the shells of lobsters and crabs, lol.
7. Collagen -bone broth, bone marrow, chicken with the skin, fish with the skin, eggs, gelatin, and then oysters can boost your own collagen production.
8. Glycine - plenty in your meat, fish, and dairy.
9. Q10 - plenty in organ meats, fatty, fish, some muscle meats, and eggs. Your body will also make it's own.
10. Minerals - tough call here. Many keto carnivores will take an electrolyte supplement. You CAN get it all from meat, but you have to eat a heck of a lot. We used to get it in our water, but today our water is filtered and these trace minerals are often removed.
11. Omega 3s - abundant in seafood, and plenty in pasture raised eggs and grass fed grass finished beef.
12. Vitamin A - found in butter, egg yolks, and whole milk. There's a TON in liver, to the point where eating too much liver can be toxic.
13. Vitamin B (group) - Meats are the best souce of B vitamins
14. Vitamin C - There is vitamin C in your muscle meat and organs, albeit very little. Vitamin C gets taken in through the same receptor as glucose. Since you aren't eating sugars, these receptors can take up all the vitamin C because it isn't competing with glucose. Carnivores don't get scurvy, so the amount of vitamin C we get must be adequate.
15. Vitamin D (+ K) - Vitamin D is found in oily fish, eggs, and cheese, AND you synthesize your own. But if you live in northern climates and don't get a lot of sun, you may want to supplement. You will get plenty of bioavailable Vitamin K2 on the carnivore diet.
16. Vitamin E - grass fed meat, fish, eggs, and salmon
17. https://health.selfdecode.com/blog/carnivore-diet/ What you think about this? -> Here's the thing. If you take water soluble vitamins and your body doesn't need them, you simply excrete them through your urine. Fat soluble vitamins, such as A and D, will accumulate in your body. So if you feel more comfortable supplementing, it's probably harmless, but also a waste of money.
18. Geranylgeraniol - Your body synthesizes this, makes it own.

Hope this helps

[1958MaleInEngland]

The self decode link reads like medical propaganda. More sick people = more Big Pharma money. They want us all vegan.

[Bob]

12 hours ago, 1958MaleInEngland said:

More sick people = more Big Pharma money. They want us all vegan.

This is so true. I am constantly searching for carnivore and keto related articles and studies to share. This eventually trains Google and Bing's algorithms to serve me content that it thinks I am interested in. I get bombarded with recommendations for vegan diets, articles about how what you eat doesn't matter, and articles about how awful keto and carnivore is. It's almost as if Google and Bing are trying to reprogram me, lol.

[Orweller]

1. Fiber - Not needed, however, it won't hurt you to get small amounts in case, I do it myself, about 5 to 8 grams a day. 
2. Probiotics/Prebiotics - I take probiotics. 
3. Butyrate/Butyric acid - Not worried about this one at all. 
4. BHB Ketones supplement - Not for me. Go gently into keto by going low carb first. 
5. Methylsulfonylmethane - Again, a no from me. 
6. Glucosamine - Also not taking this. 
7. Collagen - Bone broth will suffice, skin off chicken, bone in pork chops, etc will get you plenty. 
8. Glycine - I am not worried about this one.
9. Q10 - Also not concerned about this one. 
10. Minerals - I may here and there supplement on minerals. 
11. Omega 3s - I do supplement on this with fish oil. I consider this supplement one of the big ones. 
12. Vitamin A - Nope.
13. Vitamin B (group) - Nope. 
14. Vitamin C - I take a supplement about 3 times a week. Can't hurt. 
15. Vitamin D (+ K) - I supplement both, D every day, vitamin K 3 times a week. 
16. Vitamin E - Not concerned about vitamin E
17. https://health.selfdecode.com/blog/carnivore-diet/ What you think about this? 
18. Geranylgeraniol - Don't know either. I concentrate on sodium, potassium and magnesium, everyday. The three big ones for me. I also supp with calcium. But that's pretty much it. I adjust as I go. 

Hope this helps somewhat.

[Guest Sephiroth]

On 2/29/2024 at 3:00 AM, 1958MaleInEngland said:

The self decode link reads like medical propaganda. More sick people = more Big Pharma money. They want us all vegan.

I was also sceptic about it.

[Guest Sephiroth]

On 2/29/2024 at 6:18 PM, Orweller said:

1. Fiber - Not needed, however, it won't hurt you to get small amounts in case, I do it myself, about 5 to 8 grams a day. 
2. Probiotics/Prebiotics - I take probiotics. 
3. Butyrate/Butyric acid - Not worried about this one at all. 
4. BHB Ketones supplement - Not for me. Go gently into keto by going low carb first. 
5. Methylsulfonylmethane - Again, a no from me. 
6. Glucosamine - Also not taking this. 
7. Collagen - Bone broth will suffice, skin off chicken, bone in pork chops, etc will get you plenty. 
8. Glycine - I am not worried about this one.
9. Q10 - Also not concerned about this one. 
10. Minerals - I may here and there supplement on minerals. 
11. Omega 3s - I do supplement on this with fish oil. I consider this supplement one of the big ones. 
12. Vitamin A - Nope.
13. Vitamin B (group) - Nope. 
14. Vitamin C - I take a supplement about 3 times a week. Can't hurt. 
15. Vitamin D (+ K) - I supplement both, D every day, vitamin K 3 times a week. 
16. Vitamin E - Not concerned about vitamin E
17. https://health.selfdecode.com/blog/carnivore-diet/ What you think about this? 
18. Geranylgeraniol - Don't know either. I concentrate on sodium, potassium and magnesium, everyday. The three big ones for me. I also supp with calcium. But that's pretty much it. I adjust as I go. 

Hope this helps somewhat.

Different people, different approaches. I will not approach it this way. Plan is to not use supplements.

[Carnivore Club]

On 2/27/2024 at 3:18 PM, Guest Sephiroth said:

I am planning to start carnivore. I am 6 feet and close to 300 lbs. After adjusting to new fuel source I might go back to training powerbuilding. What about supplementation? People claim that supplements are not needed. But I want to ask separately about each supplement:

Okay great. Congrats on having an open mind at the very least and being willing to try this way of living/eating. I'll answer to the best of my knowledge. 

Do not just jump into carnivore though as you need to give your microbiome time to adjust, usually it seems to be about a few weeks. If you hear why people who go carnivore get diarrhoea and/or constipation, that is a big reason why. 

On 2/27/2024 at 3:18 PM, Guest Sephiroth said:

1. Fiber - I think that fiber might not be needed on carnivore

Correct. Fibre is not needed and shouldn't be consumed at all. Zero grams are required. None.

Here is a study showing how fibre irritates the colon and how it aggravates colon issues, especially constipation-related issues: Stopping or reducing dietary fiber intake reduces constipation and its associated symptoms.

On 2/27/2024 at 3:18 PM, Guest Sephiroth said:

2. Probiotics/Prebiotics - I think they are not needed on carnivore.

Correct. They are not needed. However, In my personal opinion, it might be useful to consume something like kefir or raw milk when starting carnivore to give your microbiome a helping hand when changing from the standard diet to carnivore.

On 2/27/2024 at 3:18 PM, Guest Sephiroth said:

3. Butyrate/Butyric acid - Would it be useful or would I get it enough on the diet.

Not needed and you make enough through ketone production. Hence beta-hydroxybutyrate. 

On 2/27/2024 at 3:18 PM, Guest Sephiroth said:

4. BHB Ketones supplement - Would I benefit from it during transition process and after or is it worthless? I heard/read that it might be good together with Butyrate/Butyric acid.

See the above response. Not needed. Unless you want to make your urine more expensive.

On 2/27/2024 at 3:18 PM, Guest Sephiroth said:

5. Methylsulfonylmethane - not sure about this supplement. Should I take it or will I get it from diet or is it not needed?

Not needed. You could however look into Taurine as a sulfur compound. but you don't need to supplement with methylsulfonylmethane.

On 2/27/2024 at 3:18 PM, Guest Sephiroth said:

6. Glucosamine - not sure about this supplement. Should I take it or will I get it from diet or is it not needed?

Not needed.

On 2/27/2024 at 3:18 PM, Guest Sephiroth said:

7. Collagen - should I supplement it or will I get enough from diet (bone broth)?

You will get enough collagen from your meat. 

On 2/27/2024 at 3:18 PM, Guest Sephiroth said:

8. Glycine - should I supplement it or will I get enough from diet (bone broth)?

9. Q10 - should I supplement it or will I get enough of it from meat (heart)?
10. Minerals - this one might be needed especially in the beginning but will it be needed later into diet?
11. Omega 3s - I think it might not be needed on carnivore.
12. Vitamin A - I think it might not be needed.
13. Vitamin B (group) - I think it might not be needed.

All of those you will get in meat in the appropriate amount needed. It's perfect, isn't it? it's almost as if we evolved by eating the muscle meat and fat of large animals. :D.

On 2/27/2024 at 3:18 PM, Guest Sephiroth said:

14. Vitamin C - not sure. People say that due to not consuming carbs carnivores need less of it.

They are correct. Glucose and Vitamin C use the same transporter into the cells and from memory, I believe it is the GLUT4 receptor. Your body will prefer to uptake the glucose as yes your body does need some glucose but you don't need to get it exogenously your body produces enough through the gluconeogenesis pathway.

If you cut out exogenous carbs aka glucose then your requirement for vitamin c drops significantly since the vitamin C doesn't have to compete to get into the cell.

and yes, meat does have enough vitamin C, so don't worry about scurvy. 

On 2/27/2024 at 3:18 PM, Guest Sephiroth said:

15. Vitamin D (+ K) - should I supplement vitamin D or D+K or none? Some supplement only with D but some say that D needs K so they supplement together. But on carnivore I should have enough K. But I am not sure is having enough is the same as taking them together. Some argue they must be taken together, is that true? If yes would I need to take D while eating food with K or better take both in supplement form or I need none in supplement form?

You should get it from the Sun as much as possible in the non-winter months to build up the vitamin d stores for the winter. If you don't go out much then I'd advise taking it as a supplement, especially.

You do get some vitamin d from meat but it's mostly from the UVB rays from the sun hitting your skin that's where you will make the bulk of vitamin d. By the way, glass blocks UVB light so you won't get any vitamin d production if you are by the windows. 

You'll find vitamin K2 in meat so it's a none issue. But if you are concerned eat some dairy as dairy has vastly more vitamin k in it than meat. No need for supplementation here either. Vitamin K1 is plant-based and has to be converted into K2 in the body and the conversation is rubbish. 

On 2/27/2024 at 3:18 PM, Guest Sephiroth said:

16 Vitamin E - the stupidest one for me. There are tocopherols and tocotrienols. Although body stores a-tocopherol but some newer research proven that tocotrienols are better and tocopherols are bad/worse compared to tocotrienols and that (too much) tocopherols can reduce/hinder good potential from tocotrienols. So should I take tocotrienols and avoid tocopherols or no supplementation of any vitamin E form is needed. Also I read that vitamin E reacts with vitamin K and is antagonist of vitamin K; that vitamin K thickens blood and vitamin E thins blood. Not sure what to think about it. Are antioxidants that needed on carnivore?

You get vitamin E in meat as all the others. You don't need to supplement with it.

On 2/27/2024 at 3:18 PM, Guest Sephiroth said:

17. https://health.selfdecode.com/blog/carnivore-diet/ What you think about this?

 

That article is a nonsense propaganda piece. Don't worry about it, if you eat a carnivore diet all of those things will not be an issue. 

On 2/27/2024 at 3:18 PM, Guest Sephiroth said:

18. Geranylgeraniol - what is that? Should it also be supplemented? It is often mentioned with Q10 and vitamin E. Is it antioxidant?

You don't need to supplement with that either.  By the way, one of the best anti-oxidants is grounding but that is for another post. 

You don't need to supplement anything on carnivore as meat will have everything you need in the right amounts. 

Also, don't eat liver every day or any organ apart from heart as you will suffer from copper toxicity and it's not required for carnivore anyway just the muscle meat and fat of large ruminant animals. Yes. If you fancy chicken/pork then eat it it will not be a problem.

TLDR? No need to supplement with anything if you do a 100% carnivore diet or as close to 100% as possible and as sustainable as you can make it. If that means still drinking coffee then that's fine. Don't think that having coffee/pepper/seasonings means it's over for you. I have coffee still and while yes it isn't optimal it is light-years better than the standard diet.