Animal based diet and liver condition

[Guest Elncnv]

Hello,

I'd simply like to know how is it possible to massively increase the ratio of animal product in my overall diet, when it seems like I don't have a liver strong enough to do so ? Not that I have any liver disease or whatever, it's normal. It's just and evidence for me that increasing animal fats over plants, leads to very good stuff in my body, but problems also appear, and especially a big worsening of my chronic fatigue. There's some other symptoms, but it seems like my liver is the key, and really don't want all those animal calories.

I also know that I need lots of calories (I'm slightly under 6 feet tall for 150 pounds) so fasting is not an option (it makes me feel better on short term, but doesn't help on long term).

I just wonder if there is solutions better than eating a majority of plants and sugar, or desperatly try to "help" my liver with detox techniques

Thanx in advance !

[Bob]

What have you tried with regards to diet? Have you done keto, animal-based, or carnivore for any significant amount of time yet, like 30 days or more?

People with chronic liver disease can experience fatigue, but you say your liver is normal. So my question is geared towards trying to figure out of you have given yourself ample time to become fat adapted, or if ketosis isn't your goal, ample time for your body to adjust to the increase of meat in your diet.

There's 3 levels of proper eating, in my opinion, and sometimes it is best to start at "level 1" and gradually work your way to "level 3". The first step you should take is to eliminate the trio of terror -> seed oils, grains, and refined sugar. Basically, this means avoid processed food. This alone will benefit you greatly, and basically puts you automatically on the first level....

Level 1 -> Animal-based diet. This includes muscle meat of all sorts, with a particular nod towards ruminant fatty red meat and fatty fish, and organs. Although meat is centric, this includes fruit and vegetables and dairy too. If you have health issues, you may want to avoid vegetables that are leaves, stems, and roots, allowing only vegetables that are technically fruitage. Aim for less than 100 carbs per day.

Level 2 -> Keto diet. This includes muscle meat of all sorts, especially ruminant animals, organs, and dairy. You'll aim for 20-30 carbs per day so a lot of natural sugary fruit is off the table, leaving you with low carb veggies and berries.

Level 3 -> Carnivore/Ketovore/Carnivorish diet. This is when you are all in, or almost all in, eating only animal products with trace carbs, if any. You might use seasonings or occasionally dip your fork back into keto once or twice a week, but you are trying your best to be a true carnivore. You might even become over-zealous in an almost religious sense about avoiding plants at all costs, which if that is what works best for you, then by all means go for it.

Sometimes it's best to transition gradually, as jumping all the way from standard American diet to strict carnivore overnight can cause your body to do all sorts of wacky things at first, but in 3-6 weeks on average you adapt and things return to normal, or better yet, your new normal.

[Geezy]

So are you trying to go full carnivore?
Are you doing this for metabolic health?
If so that’s great. This is the way man has always been designed to eat and regardless of whether one eats carnivore for weight loss, weight gain or just better health it’s just the proper way to eat.

I’m not sure what not having a liver strong enough to eat meat means. Never head of anything like that before.
I suppose if you’ve been a vegetarian for a long time you could very well get sick trying to eat too much too soon so in that case I would definitely introduce meat slowly and wean myself off of plants slowly until my body could handle the transformation.
I knew a young lady who was raised strict 7th Day Adventist so she was a strict vegetarian. She was unhealthy and knew it was because of her religious diet but her aversion towards meat was so strong that when she tried to eat meat she’d just get sick and toss her cookies.
Funny thing is was that she loved the refried bean burrito at a local fast food restaurant and had no problem eating it. I never had the heart to tell her that the refried beans are made with lard.


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[Guest Elncnv]

First of all, thanx for those first answers. I'll try to answer your questions.

I don't have any goal of going into full keto or carnivore. I just want to eat in majority, the best food that is adapted to human, to improve my health, energy, sleeping, etc. I also specify that I'm from Europe, and never was on "standard American diet", I've always had a quality diet (except sometimes, of course). I've also never been a vegetarian, and never did any form of restritive diet based on plants.

I figured out that my liver is weak because :
- I have most signs of it : fatigue, a bit yellow eyes, skin problems....
- I sometimes eat a high calories meal with majority of animal fats and proteins, that my digestive system and intestines handle very well, but hours later it becomes very difficult, and I feel crushed
- one of my parents have liver problems, and I drank lots of alcohol years ago when I was a student, so maybe those could be the causes

I've tried in 2022 some progressive keto. Two month of carbs decreasing (150g per day, then 100g, then 50-80g), and ended with two weeks of strict keto. That may seems poor, but since I practised fasting on a regular basis, was able to do sport with 24 hours sugar-free, and didn't have any overweight or diabete condition, I thought it should have been enought to see if that suits me. And it was clear that it did not. Since that, I forgot about keto and being fat-adapted, but still eat sometimes carnivore meals. And I increased a bit my intake of animal foods, and try to do that more and more (raw milk, quality eggs...).

I'm actually not here to talk about if keto or carnivore suits me or not - although this conversation could be interesting - because I've already draw my conclusions. I just want to focus, without entering into any form of restrictive diet, increase animal fats and proteins, with this fragile liver, and read about people that did (or did not) overcome this obstacle.

[Geezy]

Well that’s pretty interesting testimony.
I’ve never heard of someone having this kind of issue unless they had a liver disease. From your explanation that sounds exactly like what you have. You may need to go see an internist and see what’s wrong. Jaundice is definitely a sign of something wrong with the liver.
It also sounds like most foods bother you both meat and vegetables. That’s quite a predicament. I’m not sure what to tell you because eating the most optimal diet for humans is fat, meat, salt and water. That’s all the human body needs for nutrition. If you aren’t able to eat that and vegetables don’t sit well with you then there may not be much anyone can do for you except a doctor.
I certainly hope you find a way to fix this. Good luck.


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[Bob]

On 3/6/2024 at 5:38 PM, Guest Elncnv said:

I figured out that my liver is weak because :
- I have most signs of it : fatigue, a bit yellow eyes, skin problems....
- I sometimes eat a high calories meal with majority of animal fats and proteins, that my digestive system and intestines handle very well, but hours later it becomes very difficult, and I feel crushed
- one of my parents have liver problems, and I drank lots of alcohol years ago when I was a student, so maybe those could be the causes

Have you gotten blood tests to check your liver or seen a heptologist?

Based on what you have said in these few posts, it doesn't sound like your liver is "normal". The fatigue paired with the jaundice (yellow eyes) indicates a problem. Since you mention drinking, you might look into cirrhosis of the liver. 

Cirrhosis often has no symptoms until liver damage is severe and then you may experience some of the following symptoms...

• Fatigue.
• Easily bleeding or bruising.
• Loss of appetite.
• Nausea.
• Swelling in the legs, feet or ankles, called edema.
• Weight loss.
• Itchy skin.
• Yellow discoloration in the skin and eyes, called jaundice.
• Fluid accumulation in the abdomen, called ascites (uh-SAHY-teez).
• Spiderlike blood vessels on the skin.
• Redness in the palms of the hands.
• Pale fingernails, especially the thumb and index finger.
• Confusion, drowsiness or slurred speech.

If this is the case, then there is scarring in your liver, impairing it's function, such as damage/destruction of bile ducts. You may have to experiment with higher protein and lower fat, or having eating more meals that are smaller portions vs fewer meals that are large portions. We normally discuss ketogenic diets and the importance for fat for energy here because meat and organs and it's associated fats are super healthy and beneficial. Your body is well equipped to process other foods as well. And while we encourage everyone to be ketogenic and even carnivore, you might have a health related issue that requires you to lean more animal-based with the inclusion of some fruitage.

Carnivore and keto can completely reverse fatty liver disease. But it sounds like you are dealing with another issue and i would have it tested and investigated by a professional.