Advice on Carnivore Diet Failure and what to do next?

[Andre]

I would like to ask for some advice on how to transition from a carnivore diet. I have been a Strick Carnivore for over 120 days. I lost 17 pounds in the first 6 weeks (mostly water), but after that, I was unable to lose any significant amount of weight. In fact, in the last 3 weeks I have gained 2.5 pounds. When I started the carnivore diet, I did so as a healthy individual with body recomposition goals. I don't have any health problems. I didn't experience most of the famous  of the  carnivore diet benefits such as great fat loss, muscle gain, better sleep, more energy, and so on.

After 120 days of eating only meat and eggs (400-500g of Cocked meat plus 7-8 eggs per day) I have come to the conclusion that the Carnivorie diet will not allow me to lose the weight I still have (15-20lbs) and achieve my goal of having less than 15% body fat without having to starve or count every calorie I eat.
1 - So i would like to ask what can i incorporate to the Carnivore diet? 
2-What are the food i could eat in a ketogentic diet? (How much carbs is allowed in a Ketognic diet?)
3- Should i expect any weight/fat gain?

Thank you very much for the attetion.This may be my last post since i was not able to succced in the Carnivore diet. I Really thought this would work but i guess as most diets, this way of eating works great for some people, it is mediocre for others individuals and it doesnt for some folks.
Good luck with your journey on the Carnivore Diet.

[Bob]

59 minutes ago, Andre said:

I have come to the conclusion that the Carnivorie diet will not allow me to lose the weight I still have (15-20lbs) and achieve my goal of having less than 15% body fat without having to starve or count every calorie I eat.

Perhaps. We've given you tons of advice. We're not sure if you have applied any of it though. You could incorporate intermittent fasting. You can count calories if you like - these can still be used as a guage for how much or how little you are eating. You can also adjust your macros. For example, if you are eating mostly lean protein and not a lot of fat, then you are likely not spending much time in ketosis as your body converts the protein to glucose. 

1 hour ago, Andre said:

1 - So i would like to ask what can i incorporate to the Carnivore diet? 
2-What are the food i could eat in a ketogentic diet? (How much carbs is allowed in a Ketognic diet?)
3- Should i expect any weight/fat gain?

A ketogenic diet is high fat, moderate protein, because you want your body to adapt to using ketones for energy instead of glucose. On a keto diet, you can have fatty meat, any form of zero carb dairy, and low carb cruciferous vegetables, such as lettuce, broccoli, asparugus, brussel sprouts, etc, provided you stay under about 20g of carbs per day.

Just like on a properly formulated ketogenic carnivore diet, you would expect weight loss, not weight gain. Of course, if you overeat or don't consume enough fat to become fat adapted, there is a chance you will stall or gain weight. 

Good luck to you too.

[Andre]

29 minutes ago, Bob said:

Perhaps. We've given you tons of advice. We're not sure if you have applied any of it though. You could incorporate intermittent fasting. You can count calories if you like - these can still be used as a guage for how much or how little you are eating. You can also adjust your macros. For example, if you are eating mostly lean protein and not a lot of fat, then you are likely not spending much time in ketosis as your body converts the protein to glucose. 

A ketogenic diet is high fat, moderate protein, because you want your body to adapt to using ketones for energy instead of glucose. On a keto diet, you can have fatty meat, any form of zero carb dairy, and low carb cruciferous vegetables, such as lettuce, broccoli, asparugus, brussel sprouts, etc, provided you stay under about 20g of carbs per day.

Just like on a properly formulated ketogenic carnivore diet, you would expect weight loss, not weight gain. Of course, if you overeat or don't consume enough fat to become fat adapted, there is a chance you will stall or gain weight. 

Good luck to you too.

Hi Bob. I've been eating more fat, trying to increase my physical activity, and fasting longer. Nothing has really changed. (I stopped eating chicken, increased my fat intake, ate more red meat, especially fattier cuts like neck steak), but I'm still about 183 pounds and 20-22% body fat. In my first 6 weeks I lost 17 pounds (mostly water), I didn't lose any significant amount of weight. My measurements have been the same since week 7. 

As i also explain in many posts that i am a healthy individual and have not experienced most of the Carnivore benefits.

My personal experience with this way of eating and my failure to improve my body composition led me to believe that the Carnivore diet is not sustanable for me. Too restrictive, not effecteve enoguh and very expensive. I am Brazilian and the best cuts of meat a very expensive for me. I will not be able to eat like this for much longer especially with no guarantee i will ever lose any mor weigth.

I dont know what enogh fat means or how i shoudl calculate this number. Eating more fat did not led me to better results. I was wonder if i should start counting caloires again since i will have to incorporate carb.

Thank you and good luck.

[Andre]

43 minutes ago, Bob said:

Perhaps. We've given you tons of advice. We're not sure if you have applied any of it though. You could incorporate intermittent fasting. You can count calories if you like - these can still be used as a guage for how much or how little you are eating. You can also adjust your macros. For example, if you are eating mostly lean protein and not a lot of fat, then you are likely not spending much time in ketosis as your body converts the protein to glucose. 

A ketogenic diet is high fat, moderate protein, because you want your body to adapt to using ketones for energy instead of glucose. On a keto diet, you can have fatty meat, any form of zero carb dairy, and low carb cruciferous vegetables, such as lettuce, broccoli, asparugus, brussel sprouts, etc, provided you stay under about 20g of carbs per day.

Just like on a properly formulated ketogenic carnivore diet, you would expect weight loss, not weight gain. Of course, if you overeat or don't consume enough fat to become fat adapted, there is a chance you will stall or gain weight. 

Good luck to you too.

Counting Caloires is not a matter of likiing but a necessity. I have been eating to satiaty for more than 120  days and it did not led to better results taht people have by only staying on a Caloric defict.(there are people eating all types of food and by just staying on a caloric deficit  were able to lose more body fat that i did, eating nothing but meat and eggs.
Now that i will incoporete some carb into my diet i did think that it should require counting calories. 
Since the Carnivore Diet did not work for me, i have to considera the fact that eating until i am full also may not work.

[Andre]

50 minutes ago, Bob said:

Perhaps. We've given you tons of advice. We're not sure if you have applied any of it though. You could incorporate intermittent fasting. You can count calories if you like - these can still be used as a guage for how much or how little you are eating. You can also adjust your macros. For example, if you are eating mostly lean protein and not a lot of fat, then you are likely not spending much time in ketosis as your body converts the protein to glucose. 

A ketogenic diet is high fat, moderate protein, because you want your body to adapt to using ketones for energy instead of glucose. On a keto diet, you can have fatty meat, any form of zero carb dairy, and low carb cruciferous vegetables, such as lettuce, broccoli, asparugus, brussel sprouts, etc, provided you stay under about 20g of carbs per day.

Just like on a properly formulated ketogenic carnivore diet, you would expect weight loss, not weight gain. Of course, if you overeat or don't consume enough fat to become fat adapted, there is a chance you will stall or gain weight. 

Good luck to you too.

I don't know if I can or should expect weight loss on a Keto diet since it allows for more types of foods than a Carnviore diet. In my 4+ months of eating meat and eggs, I only lost body fat in the first 6 weeks. In fact, I gained up to 1kg( 2,2) between weeks 10 to 13. This is why I fear that following a Keto diet and not counting calories will lead to a gain in body fat. If this experience has taught me anything, it's that there's nothing magical about eating fat and protein. At least not when you are a healthy person just looking to improve your body composition (lose fat and gain muscle)

Thanks

[Bob]

On 3/27/2024 at 12:05 AM, Andre said:

If this experience has taught me anything, it's that there's nothing magical about eating fat and protein. At least not when you are a healthy person

Yes, we said that too. If you are obese and suffering from chronic and auto-immune conditions that you were told were "incurable" and that you have to take medications for life to manage it, then keto and carnivore becomes a miracle. You lose weight and reverse those diseases by eating an all natural human diet, even without counting calories. But if you are already metabolically healthy, which you are, why are you expecting a miracle? When you get down to such low body fat percentages, you are going to have to work it off. 

Case in point, I was 232 lbs - ate nothing but meat and eggs and cheese and dropped to 175-ish. I hit that target in November, and I have not lost a pound since. I, too, would like to take off another 15 more yet. I really haven't changes anything about my diet, aside from adding back breakfast and I occasionally snack. Starting in April, I will return to intermittent fasting, eating at noon and at 7pm, and I will start hiking the trails again because it's warming up outside. I may even have to hit the gym. The first 50+ lbs melted away over 6 months, but I am going to have to work for the rest.

When I intermittently fast, that puts me in a calorie deficit. So yes, I would suggest counting your calories. Even though you are eating to satisfaction, "satisfaction" for you may be more food than you realize. Have you tried tracking your calories and macros in a notebook or an app like Carb Manager?

[Orweller]

Keto is amazing for body composition. If you still gain weight, check at the doctors office, maybe you've got a thyroid thingy. If you've done everything and still can't lose weight, there's gotta be more at play. Simple as that. I would stop drinking your calories if you didn't already. No protein shakes, no creatine, or any of that. Working out more can cause more hunger and cause you to eat more. Focus on what you put in, more than what you put out. Obviously you workout enough. 

Start by adding greens, they are low in calories and low in carbs, but full with nutrients. You can eat that in higher volumes and they make you feel full. Another step away from that is going low carb/adkins vs. keto. Do what works for you. 

As for me, my body composition changed for the good, got a six pack at 48, muscle definition, etc. Good luck, don't give up. 

[Andre]

On 3/28/2024 at 11:53 AM, Orweller said:

Keto is amazing for body composition. If you still gain weight, check at the doctors office, maybe you've got a thyroid thingy. If you've done everything and still can't lose weight, there's gotta be more at play. Simple as that. I would stop drinking your calories if you didn't already. No protein shakes, no creatine, or any of that. Working out more can cause more hunger and cause you to eat more. Focus on what you put in, more than what you put out. Obviously you workout enough. 

Start by adding greens, they are low in calories and low in carbs, but full with nutrients. You can eat that in higher volumes and they make you feel full. Another step away from that is going low carb/adkins vs. keto. Do what works for you. 

As for me, my body composition changed for the good, got a six pack at 48, muscle definition, etc. Good luck, don't give up. 

I have only ate meat, eggs and some bacon. I have not problem with my Thyroid. The Carnvire diet just did not work for me. I dont know why but after the initial water weight loss i have not lose much body fat. I am now around 22 %BF and have not lose any body fat for at lest 12 weeks

[Andre]

On 3/28/2024 at 9:56 AM, Bob said:

Yes, we said that too. If you are obese and suffering from chronic and auto-immune conditions that you were told were "incurable" and that you have to take medications for life to manage it, then keto and carnivore becomes a miracle. You lose weight and reverse those diseases by eating an all natural human diet, even without counting calories. But if you are already metabolically healthy, which you are, why are you expecting a miracle? When you get down to such low body fat percentages, you are going to have to work it off. 

Case in point, I was 232 lbs - ate nothing but meat and eggs and cheese and dropped to 175-ish. I hit that target in November, and I have not lost a pound since. I, too, would like to take off another 15 more yet. I really haven't changes anything about my diet, aside from adding back breakfast and I occasionally snack. Starting in April, I will return to intermittent fasting, eating at noon and at 7pm, and I will start hiking the trails again because it's warming up outside. I may even have to hit the gym. The first 50+ lbs melted away over 6 months, but I am going to have to work for the rest.

When I intermittently fast, that puts me in a calorie deficit. So yes, I would suggest counting your calories. Even though you are eating to satisfaction, "satisfaction" for you may be more food than you realize. Have you tried tracking your calories and macros in a notebook or an app like Carb Manager?

Bob, 15%BF is not low. I healhty male should be under 18%BF is i am not even in the healthy range(I would encorage you to take some time and read about BF%. I think you have been seen so many obse individuals that anyone who is not obese, you are considerating Ripped. That is not reality)  what can became a problem since i am 35 years old and have Cardiovascular disease in my family(almost every male in my mother side of the family had some heart condition). In your story you dont say what waws your intial bodyfat and end bodyfat. Yoy can google BF% pictures and you will see 15% is nothing anormal. I used to be leaner when i played soccer. I also initiated the Carnivore dietdoing 2-3 HIT workotus to assit build muscle and lose fat.(What most Carnivores dont do it) However, i have not gained any amount of muscle mass, what was to be expected since Keto Diest usually are not percived a god ways to improve lean muscle mass. I was not expecting a miracle. I was just expecting that after 5 months i would be able to lose most of my Bodyfat and at least be in the healthy range (Under 18B%F). I have lost only 15 lbs and most of it was water. This is very bad results.( Most CICO diets would have allow me to lose more bodyfat in the same period of time. The problem would be sustained.)
I will stay eating Carnivore until June.(when i will complete 7 months of a failure experiement) but now i dont really have much holp i wil break the stall. 
I will use this time to search for another diet since eating meat is expensive and  i cannot sustained for much longer.
I guess the Carnivore diet is just like any other way of eating: It works for some folks, it doenst work for others and for most people is just mediocre. You already can find on youtube a lot of videos of people quintting the Carnivore and even keto diet, because there is not one size fits all. It is a shame to me, because i actually believed in it!

Good Luck
 

[Bob]

On 3/28/2024 at 8:56 AM, Bob said:

When I intermittently fast, that puts me in a calorie deficit. So yes, I would suggest counting your calories.

 

On 4/18/2024 at 10:37 PM, Andre said:

Most CICO diets would have allow me to lose more bodyfat in the same period of time.

Think this through @Andre. 

The science is simple. Calories do matter, to the extent that it still serves as a gauge to how much you are consuming. You can overeat on carnivore, and you can even gain weight by doing so. Other factors come into play also. 

The benefits of keto/carnvivore is that you are consuming the most nutritionally dense foods, and that protein and fat satiates you, allowing you to feel full for longer inbetween meals. This satiation and subsequent elongated "fasting" period, allowing you to use up this fuel, return to a state of ketosis, and most likely consume less calories that you may have previously.  

Carnivore works for people because a salad doesn't satisfy, and processed carbohydrates make you hungrier, sooner, causing people to overeat. Fruit can get a pass for a lot of people, but for many others it is just as binge-inducing as a cookie or slice of bread.

The principles and the science behind animal-based, ketogenic, and carnivore diets is solid. You can lose the weight if you apply it. 

On 4/18/2024 at 10:37 PM, Andre said:

there is not one size fits all

This is accurate. Like Dr. Berry says, the Proper Human Diet is a spectrum, and where you happen to be on that spectrum is depends in your personal physiology, and your lineage and DNA can play a role in that as well.