Bob

This study is very comforting considering my cholesterol is through the roof at the moment, as high as the highest person in that study. Although, for me it's because I have been in a phase of rapid weight loss, and cholesterol is stored in adipose tissue. I fully anticipate my cholesterol to come back down as my weight stabilizes.

Looks delicous!

I got hit with Covid yesterday. I did have eggs and sausage in the morning (a routine thing for me), and then later in the day I Door-Dash'ed a Wendy's Baconator with no bun, because I was too dizzy to stand up and do any cooking.

Today I am feeling better than yesterday

19 hours ago, Matan1262 said:

In that case, are there specific fruits that are generally better?

If you were not metabolically healthy or had diabetes then you would want to focus on low-glycemic fruits. But since you are 24 years old, my height (5'8") and 135 pounds (62.5kg) I have a feeling you are pretty healthy. If you are trying to reverse any chronic illness, then you would want to do standard carnivore or lion diet for a while and then slowly reintroduce one fruit at a time.

Odds are, the fruit will do you no harm. Dr. Paul Saladino who used to advocate a carnivore diet now advocates an animal-based diet with fruit, honey, and raw milk. He is metabolically healthy though. Many of the other carnivore doctors think he's gone off the deep end since he now advocates 300g of carbs per day. I personally disagree with those numbers, especially if you are not metabolically healthy. Even if you are, I think that number should be 100g or less. I very much believe that we are designed to be a low carbohydrate meat-based mammal.

16 hours ago, Geezy said:

Their fruit was small and not very sweet and only available seasonally.

This statement by Geoff is worthy of some deep meditation, imo. I believe man has ate fruit from the beginning, but most fruit is only available during the harvest season. It would ripen around August, people would eat it and it would fatten them up for the winter ahead. Once it was gone, it was gone, and you wouldn't have had fruit again till the next year. But today, due to technology and trade, it's "harvest season" 365 days a year down at the supermarket.

16 hours ago, Geezy said:

fruit today has been genetically modified to be larger and sweeter.

And this is true too. I have a few apple trees in my backyard, and I pick and eat from them in August. But these apples are little bite size snacks compared to the big luscious apples you see at the market.

20 hours ago, Matan1262 said:

I see more people on this diet eating fruits but not vegetables, what is the difference?

Plants produce toxins and self-defense chemicals to discourage being eaten. They want to live. These chemicals are found in their leaves, stems, and roots, and especialy their seed are well-protected. However, they WANT their fruit to be eaten, because this is how they propagate. So there will be much lower amounts, if any, of these self-defense chemicals in the fruits. 

It these self-defense chemicals that could be causing your inflammation, chronic, or auto-immune conditions.

56 minutes ago, Matan1262 said:

Is there No problem using butter on carnivore diet?

Butter is an animal product, so enjoy all the butter you want

56 minutes ago, Matan1262 said:

What about dairy products in general?

This depends on your goals. Dairy is an animal product, so yes you could enjoy it. However, if losing weight or being in a ketogenic state most of the time is your goal, then you will want to watch your carb count. You can generally stay in ketosis most of the day if you keep your carb count lower than 20g. Milk has 8g of carbs per cup, which comes from lactose, which is a milk-sugar.

Check out this article on The Various Types of Carnivore Diets. Technically you would be switching from a Standard Carnivore Diet to an Any Animal-products Carnivore Diet.

58 minutes ago, Matan1262 said:

Its been 50 days since I started and I feel amazing but I would love to add some fruit and vegs, and dairy if possible 

It might be possible. It all depends on your and your personal physiology and your personal health goals. Technically, you would be switching to an Animal-based "Carnivore" Diet or a Carnivorish/Ketovore Diet.

If you are trying to lose weight and live a healthy life, all of these might work for you. If you are trying to heal certain maladies, then the stricter you are to true carnivore, the better.

Many people choose Standard Carnivore or Lion Diet as an elimination diet for 60, 90, or 180 days and then they will test adding back certain foods to see how their body reacts. This is a powerful tool for you personally to figure out what you were eating that was causing your issues or chronic conditions.

Generally, if you are metabolically healthy, you can tolerate some selective fruit and vegetables. If you are not metabolically healthy, then you should continue to abstain from them. 

1 hour ago, Guest Jen said:

Could someone suggest a link to more evidence, information and any studies so I can learn more.

Sure.

Here is a quote from https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminC-HealthProfessional/ that shows that a mere 10mg per day of Vitamin C is all that is needed to prevent scurvy.

Quote

Vitamin C Deficiency

...Acute vitamin C deficiency leads to scurvy. The timeline for the development of scurvy varies, depending on vitamin C body stores, but signs can appear within 1 month of little or no vitamin C intake (below 10 mg/day)....

...Today, vitamin C deficiency and scurvy are rare in developed countries. Overt deficiency symptoms occur only if vitamin C intake falls below approximately 10 mg/day for many weeks.

 

The following quote is from this study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0309174006002701?via%3Dihub shows that meat, including muscle meat, has vitamin C...

Quote

 

As meat is a complex matrix, different models have been developed for studying the balance and the interaction between anti- and pro-oxidant substances. Antioxidant defences are composed by non-enzymatic hydro and liposoluble compounds like vitamin E, vitamin C, carotenoids, ubiquinols, polyphenols, cellular thiols, and enzymes like superoxide dismutase (SOD), catalase (CAT) and glutathione peroxidase (GPX). Together enzymatic and non-enzymatic systems operate to counteract the action of pro-oxidants in muscle tissues (Decker, Livisay, & Zhou, 2000, chap. 2).

We have previously described that pasture feeding confers higher levels of vitamin E, β-carotene (in agreement with other authors: Yang et al., 2002, Gatellier et al., 2004) and vitamin C (Descalzo et al., 2005). However, it is desirable to establish a method that can measure the antioxidant activity of meat.

 

Here is a study that has a chart about 2/3's of the way down the page showing how many mg of vitamin C there is per 100mb (3 oz) of various meats...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8266228/

You will note that even muscle meat has about 2mg per 3oz serving. So if you eat 1.25 lbs of muscle meat, you have got all the vitamin C you need. And most of us are eating 2 or more pounds per day.

Hope this helps, Jen!

1 hour ago, Geezy said:

I think I’ve got enough tallow to last a [while]

I'd say so. My store bought jar lasted me at least a month, I think. I still cook a lot in butter though as well.

Tonight's dinner features some bacon wrapped jalapeno poppers, 1/2 pound of ground beef with parmesan cheese and avocado oil mayonnaise for some extra fat

1 hour ago, Geezy said:

And the finished product. Beautiful nutritious tallow and little fat bombs that will go great in my scrambled eggs and treats for my dogs.

Nice. Nothing goes to waste

12 hours ago, Angela Little said:

Do I need to do a detox before starting?

Not at all. The human body is constantly working at detoxing itself. When you stop eating harmful foods and adopt a proper human diet then the detox will happen automatically.

12 hours ago, Angela Little said:

I think that I will try the Carnivorish/Ketovore way of eating.

I too, started with Keto, then worked my way to Carnivorish/Ketovore, and then progressed to "Mostly" Carnivore. People can actually be very successful losing weight and reversing health issues using a meat-based keto/ketovore diet. If you have certain chronic or auto-immune conditions you are trying to heal, then if they still persist after some time on keto (try 60 days, preferably 90 days) then the next step is to use carnivore or Lion diet as an elimination diet for some time, so you can set yourself up for figuring out which food/food group or plant toxin is at the root of the condition.

So you are choosing a good starting point, imo

My problem was always trying to come up with recipes that imitated foods that were forbidden. Eventually your just like "Forget this, gimme the real thing" and then next thing you know you are off plan for weeks and can't button your pants anymore, lol.

3 minutes ago, Angela Little said:

Sounds good, question,do you drink the tallow?

I licked my plate the other day, lol. Does that count?

I have some grass-fed beef burger that I get from Sam's Club that's 85/15. I will add a little tallow or butter to this because this is leaner than I like. Sometimes I pick up some 73/27 from Meijer. This doesn't need any extra tallow or butter and will produce a lot of liquid fat on it's own. My 73/27 may end up in a bowl rather than a plate and I will eat it like soup, but I don't go out of my way to drink all the fat/tallow.

Although, sometimes I toss in a couple eggs and scramble them together with the beef. The eggs will soak up most of the fat, and it's very tasty. I use some salt and some seasonings too.

Nice. I just finished a jar of store-bought beef tallow. It's actually kinda pricey.

I am curious about the process. Do you just heat it and let it liquefy, and then pour it through a strainer to remove any solids?

3 hours ago, Sherry said:

Although, I feel like I've been brainwashed my entire life to believe the opposite.

We all have. We're basically told meat is just fat and protein, but it's actually a whole lot more. It's LOADED with vitamins and minerals that are bioavailable and in abundance.

We are also told that vegetables are packed with nutrition, but that isn't exactly true. Sure, some vegetables have SOME nutrients, but nowhere near the quantity that meat has. Plus, there are anti-nutrients that bind them, making them not very bioavailable, and then there are toxins, that may not affect you after eating, but may after years and years of eating the plant over and over.

Atkins was definitely on the right track. Atkins allowed for seed oils, artificial sweeteners, and believed in fiber and supplementation. But had he lived longer, he probably would have changed his tune as more information about how bad these things are became abundant.

9 hours ago, Matan1262 said:

But still, is it normal to be that high?.. just want to make sure Im not missing something that will mess up my health

Any eating pattern on the keto-carnivore spectrum should be just fine for your health, and elevated ALT due to metabolic syndrome or non-alcoholic fatty liver disease usually improves in the long term. I would test it again once you hit the 90-day mark and if it remains elevated then it's time to find out why. 

There's a lot of anecdotal stories of ALT increasing during the initial three months on starting a low-carb diet, coinciding with weight loss. When weight loss subsides, ALT usually normalizes. You are still in your adjustment phase.

8 hours ago, Sherry said:

Where do you get carnivore friendly mayo?  Is there a brand name?

There is also....

• Sir Kensington's Avocado Oil Mayonnaise
• Chosen Foods Avocado Mayonnaise
• Chosen Foods Keto Mayonnaise (made with MCT oil)
• Primal Kitchen Mayonnaise

You can get all these from Amazon or maybe your local stores.

11 minutes ago, Orweller said:

I am aware of the sugar content, but since I just started, I think it will help me until the bottle is gone.

I'm not a fan of wasting money and throwing things away either. 

If you drink this in the morning, at least you have all day to metabolize it. And if it's just a pump per cup it's probably insignificant.

If you hit a weight loss plateau though, nix this

1 minute ago, Orweller said:

Considering Vitamin K2 if I find I don't get enough from sources. 

Ah, I forgot that one. I take K2 because I heard it pairs well with D3 and promotes bone health, and I broke my ankle earlier in the year.

So I take 5000 IU's of D3, Omega-3, and 500mg of Niacin with Lunch and then again at Dinner.
At dinner I also add the CoQ10 and the K2 to the above.
At bedtime I take my magnesium so i don't get leg cramps.

1 hour ago, Matan1262 said:

Im scared from liver damage as you can see from the results, or damage to health in general, I feel good but some metrics changed drastically and im not sure if its ok.

There is absolutely nothing about a clean keto or carnivore diet that can harm you if you are healthy to begin with. You tested 50 days apart, and have been on the carnivore diet for 43 days. At this point, some blood work is still going to look wonky as you are adapting to this new way of eating, especially if you are actively losing weight OR actively working out, lifting weights, etc.

Your BUN (B Urea), or Blood Urea Nitrogen, increased due to the high rate of protein metabolism. This is an expected change.

Your sodium levels are still normal by most standards. Google it and you will see what I mean. If you have lost weight, you probably lost a lot of water weight as well and your electrolytes could be slightly off. Do you salt your food to taste?

Your elevated liver enzymes (ALT) is also something commonly seen in people who workout hard on a regular basis. ALT tends to remain elevated for 7+ days post workout.

If this were me, I would keep doing what you are doing and test again in another 45 days so that you have 90 days total behind you.

43 minutes ago, premious said:

...what is the deal with histamines? Are they only a problem if you are sensitive to histamines and is that easy to detect?

Yes, 99% of people don't have any issues with histamines. Histamines are in just about every food at various levels. Your body also produces histamines, and also an enzyme called diamine oxidase. Diamine oxidase is what breaks down histamine that you take in from foods. If you develop a diamine oxidase deficiency and cannot break down histamine, you could develop histamine intolerance.

If you have histamine intolerance, you need to eat foods low in histamines. For a carnivore, eggs are good, and so is fresh meat and fresh caught fish. Canned and cured meats will be high in histamines because they are aged. You can also attempt taking antihistamines or diamine oxidase supplements, but they may or may not work.

Histamine intolerance only affects about 1% of people, so I wouldn't overthink it just yet.

58 minutes ago, premious said:

I have heard though is that using a slow cooker can produce a lot of histamines... I am contemplating getting a Steam Cooker instead

This could help, or a pressure cooker. Basically, if you had this problem you would want to get the freshest meat possible. If you weren't going to eat it right away, you would want to freeze it. If you freeze it, you want to thaw it as fast as possible, perhaps figuring out how to cook it from frozen. I've also read that you should avoid browning or burning your food.

1 hour ago, premious said:

Is a Steam Cooker in stainless steel good or should it be glass?

Either one is good.

1 hour ago, premious said:

In the past I have stored it in the refrigiator until close to the expiring date since this was recommended to tenderize the meat, but this might also lead to higher histamine then?

Yes, this would. But if you were still able to eat it then without issues, my hunch would be that you do not have any histamine intolerances.

Out of curiosity, has anyone here attended a local keto carnivore meetup and met others in real life? I've seen these organized from time to time. When I scrape the web for the calendar application, I can even see that there are some groups that do this quarterly, regularly, etc. 

I've done several meetups in real life for other communities I have been involved with even going back to the 90's, but I have yet to attend one in the keto/carnivore diet sphere.

20 hours ago, Angela Little said:

What is the difference between Carnivore and Keto?

Welcome aboard @Angela Little!

Keto aims to keep your daily carbohydrate intake to 20g of carbs or less. Keto also allows for some low carb veggies, a few nuts, and a few berries, as long as the days total stays under 20g of carbs. Most of what you eat will be meat-based foods of any kind, with a particular focus on fatty ruminant meats (beef, elk, lamb, etc) or fatty fish (salmon). Some animal-based foods such as butter and cheese are also acceptable.

Carnivore takes everything to the next level, and basically attempts a zero carb approach (although eggs and some seafood does have some trace carbs in them), by eliminating the vegetables completely. You will eat any animal flesh, whether land, sea, or air.

For more information, check out these 2 articles we have here....

A Brief Overview of the Various Low Carb Diets

The Various Types of Carnivore Diets

20 hours ago, Angela Little said:

can you do a sample menu, this is my biggest problem, meal planning or mixing the right food combo

Breakfast 

• Carnivore: Omellete filled with your choice of meat, and cheese if you are allowing it. Sour cream or cream cheese if you are allowing it, but read the label and make sure there is no added sugars.
• Keto: Same as above but add some green pepper, onion, or perhaps some salsa.

Lunch

• Carnivore: Burger patties. Bacon. Cheese if you are allowing it.
• Keto: Same as above but add lettuce, a tomato slice, some mustard and some avocado mayonnaise.

Dinner

• Carnivore: A fatty steak like a Striploin or Ribeye. Salt. Melted butter or tallow for dipping sauce.
• Keto: Same as above but add a small side of low carb green veggies, like brussel sprouts, asparugus, green beans, or a small side salad.

For variety, I make my eggs different each morning. Some days are omelettes, some days are over easy, some days are scrambled, etc. Also, you can rotate your meats, have eggs at dinner, swap in fatty fish or even chicken, turkey, etc. The only caveat is if you choose a lean meat, you should probably serve bacon or butter or both with it because you do want the fat content.

Hope this helps!

21 minutes ago, Orweller said:

Thanks for this. I am 2 days into Carnivore, and just now joined here. But this one infographic really cleared some things up for me. 

Welcome aboard @Orweller. We look forward to getting to know you and hearing about your successes

Welcome aboard Bonnie! 

3 hours ago, lich said:

I can't take any form of magnesium pills as they give me stomach pain, but I have had success in holding off leg cramps by eating 30-40g of hemp hearts per day.

Interesting. I had to look up hemp hearts. I can see why they help with leg cramps. The magnesium content is pretty rich. Here's what's in 30g of hemp hearts...

• Calories: 166
• Fat: 14.6g
• Carbohydrates: 2.6g
• Fiber: 1.2g
• Sugars: 0.5g
• Protein: 9.5g
• Magnesium: 210 mg
• Potassium: 360 mg

To get that much from beef you would need to eat at least 2.5 pounds of muscle meat, and liver doesn't really have that much more. This is why people like Dr. Shawn Baker and Dr. Anthony Chaffee don't need to supplement because they easily eat 3+ pounds of beef per day. I'm about half that, so I need to supplement.

3 hours ago, lich said:

obviously hemp hearts are a seed and will likely be limiting the benefits of carnivore

Maybe. Maybe not. I would be interested in knowing which plant defense chemicals are in it. And then, do those compounds in those quantities effect you?

3 hours ago, lich said:

Where are you guys getting magnesium from, if you find you need it?

So I am currently using Zentastic 4-in-1 Magnesium complex. It has Magnesium Glycinate, Malate, Taurate, and Lactate.  I've chosen this because these 4 forms of magnesium help with cramps, the heart, metabolism, and don't cause loose stools.

Many keto-carnivores like an electrolyte drink mix called LMNT which has magnesium, sodium, chloride, and potassium in it. 

Others like Keto Chow Daily Minerals. One serving has 400mg of magnesium which is plenty. It taste like donkey though so you have to split the serving and hide in in other drinks throughout the day, lol.

3 hours ago, lich said:

I have also been having decent luck in reducing joint pain, tendonitis and some other factors by eating carnivore so far, though it's early days.

Wonderful! I hope you keep seeing improvements!

Welcome to the community!

I reached for one of these while I was out at Home Depot today, but then when I read the label I put it back.

Even though this image says 9 carbs, the stick I grabbed at the store said 10 carbs. Immediately I thought to myself "10 carbs? How on earth are there 10 carbs in this meat stick? Well, the 5th ingredient is soy flour, and the 6th ingredient is corn syrup. And it comes before the "contains less than 2% of" section. The 2g of sugars is the corn syrup sothe remaining 8g carbs come from the soy four.

The entire stick is 55g. 10g are soy and corn syrup, and 2% (1.1g) makes up the rest of the stuff. That means only 43.9g is actually a combination of beef, pork, and mechanically separated chicken (basically chicken flesh that was blasted off the bone). This means a little over 20% (about 1/5th) of your Slim Jim is not meat at all.