So if I am reading this correctly, your 4 days in feeling yucky. If it's a virus or if it was rotten food, you should be pulling through soon.

There was one time I ate a bad steak on a Wednesday evening I think. That night I started feeling funny, and then next day I had stomach pain and felt sick. This continued into Friday. Friday was worse and I only had one meal, and I was a bit afraid to eat it too. Then Saturday I didn't want to eat at all and this became my first 24-hr fast that I  posted about here.

So all in all one just starting to rot steak affected me for about 4 days.

Insulin resistance from high-sugar diet may lead to brain decline

By Corrie Pelc on November 8, 2023 — Fact checked by Brittney M. Mikell, PharmD, RPh

• About 15% of people around the world have a neurodegenerative disease.
• A known risk factor for developing a neurodegenerative condition is obesity.
• Researchers from the Fred Hutch Cancer Center show evidence suggesting a high-sugar diet causes insulin resistance in the brain, reducing the brain’s ability to remove neuronal debris, thus increasing neurodegeneration risk.

Neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), affect millions of people worldwide.

Although scientists are still unclear as to what the main cause is for many neurodegenerative disorders, they do know certain risk factors play a role.

Research has previously shown that one risk factor for developing a neurodegenerative condition is obesity. However, how obesity increases neurodegenerative disease risk has been unclear.

Now researchers from the Fred Hutch Cancer Center are shedding some light on the mechanisms behind obesity and neurodegenerative disease risk. Using a common fruit fly model, the researchers believe a high-sugar diet causes insulin resistance in the brain, reducing the brain’s ability to remove neuronal debris, thus increasing neurodegeneration risk.

This study was recently published in the journal PLOS Biology.

3 minutes ago, ol_hilly said:

Did you know there's such a thing as a camel dairy?

No I haven't. Probably due to the lack of camels here in Ohio, lol 

It doesn't surprise me though. Camels are mammals and all mammals produce milk. 

@Matan1262 - It's been almost 48 hours since we've heard from you. How are you feeling lately? Any better?

1 minute ago, ol_hilly said:

I'm in Mo

You should put that in your profile.

I like your new avatar

13 minutes ago, Geezy said:

How was the steak at Longhorn’s?

It's my favorite of the commercial chains. We we're big Texas Roadhouse fans, but Longhorn took the top spot for us a little while back. It's a little pricier too.

I am usually a NY Strip guy. Longhorn's were thicker and juicier. Red juice collected on the plate as I cut it up to eat it. This doesn't happen for me at Texas. 

I used to love Texas Roadhouse seasoning, until I bought a bottle to take home and saw that it was 2 ingredients, "Sugar, Seasoned Salt" in that order. Now if I go to Texas Roadhouse, I have them NOT sear with vegetable oil and just cook directly over the fire.

I am a little blind as to what Longhorn is doing with my steak. But eating out is rare for me these days, so an occasional bourbon and a little seed oil once in a blue moon isn't going to be the death of me, lol.

So I turned 48 today. On the plus side, I feel a couple decades younger since I've lost 50 pounds and reversed several conditions thanks to the carnivore diet.

We went out to Longhorn Steakhouse, the wife and I, and so for this one meal I reverted to keto/ketovore, as I sometimes do (about once a month, maybe twice). 

I had a ribeye, side salad with vinegar and oil, and a side of broccoli. My wife couldn't finish her filet mignon so I got to have a few bites of that as well. 

I also had a shot of bourbon, which I usually only have on the first Tuesday of the month. But it was my intent to treat myself

18 hours ago, premious said:

Thank you, is the LDL going up a concern for you?

Not at the moment. I can't get a reading but I am going to assume it is way into the 300's.

The reason I am not concerned is because I am still in active weight loss. Cholesterol is stored in adipose tissue, so as I lose visceral fat, this cholesterol gets released into my bloodstream. 

About 6 months after weight stabilization I would be able to get a better baseline for what my cholesterol will typically be.

11 hours ago, Geezy said:

Good old Texas bbq. Just finished smoking this 18 pound brisket.

That looks amazing!

I need to expand my carnivore cooking skill set. I tend to eat the same rotation of basic things.

Tonight I had marinaded chicken. It was this prepackaged stuff from Perdue that my wife brought home. The marinade was not bad but not clean either. I fried it up in tallow and it wasn't the greatest. Plus it was lean, so I ended up slathering it in butter and avacado oil mayo. 

Back to fatty meat tomorrow. I just had to make the wife happy

I made my beef and egg scramble with ghost pepper cheese again (addictive). The wife even tried it tonight and realized she's been missing out

I woke up 175.3 today. Just .3 away from goalpost #1 (and 10.3 lbs away from my new goal).

6 hours ago, Matan1262 said:

Im currently in the 19th day of carnivore.

I cant survive on this way of eating like this, what is happening ? What changed?

Since you've made it 3 weeks without issues, it could be that you are simply sick. Maybe you picked up a virus. Maybe you ate some spoiled meat or eggs.

Most side effects from transitioning/adapting to carnivore are experienced soon after starting, within a few days, and last 2-6 weeks, such as the keto "flu" and alternating diarrhea and constipation.

There could be other reasons, but I would personally wait this out a little longer, perhaps even fast for a while if still feel sick. This is based on 2.5 weeks of doing just fine with eating this way. If you had an allergy/intolerance, or other issue I think it would have manifested itself eariler on.

You are probably aware of a service called OwnYourLabs.com, where you can order your own labs and have access to the results. They operate in an agreement with LabCorp so you get your results in your LabCorp account.

Now there are other services like OwnYourLabs.com where you can order your own labs at discounted prices. Usually OwnYourLabs.com is the cheapest, but there is one test that I wanted that is very expensive currently. That test is a Cystatin C. Cystatin C is an alternative test that can be used to calculate eGFR for those with chronic kidney disease, or those who are alarmed with their rising creatinine levels.

Creatinine is a protein waste product. However, it can be affected by excess meat consumption and/or lifting weights. Higher than average levels of creatinine can lead physicians to assume you too have chronic kidney disease.

However, Cystatin C is a protein produced by the cells that the kidneys are supposed to keep in check also. Cystatin C though is not affected by working out nor the food you eat. The problem though is that since OwnYourLabs.com doesn't get a lot of requests for a Cystatin C, the best price they can get at the time of this posting is about $280.00. Wowsa!

I was recently introduced to another website offering a similar service called JasonHealth.com and they offer Cystatin C orders for $40 plus an $18 lab collection fee ($58 in total). They operate through an agreement with Quest Diagnostics.

I have come to learn about others who are eating a carnivore diet and/or working out and suddenly their creatinine levels are registering as too high, and they are told there is a problem with their kidneys, but when they got their Cystatic C checked, they learned that their kidneys were just fine, and that their creatinine level was grossly exaggerated by their diet and exercise routine.

I wanted to share with the community in case there are others of you who would like Cystatin C test but don't want to drop $300.

JasonHealth.com

On 11/4/2023 at 10:43 PM, ol_hilly said:

Hope y'all's havin a good weekend!

Same to you. Mine was fine.

Monday I made bacon cheeseburgers, no bun.

Tonight was the first Tuesday of the month, which is my cousin's Open Mic Night. So we went out to support that and I had bascially the same thing, beef patties with pepper jack cheese and bacon.

It's also the only night of the month I have a shot of Kentucky bourbon.

I am going to have to try and dig deeper. Your situation is unique to me. I am not a doctor, just an information junkie with a particular fascination with keto-carnivore nutrition.

4 hours ago, Guest ARK19 said:

I appreciate any suggestions on alternative treatments/doctors.

I am a big fan of Dr. Ken Berry MD and of Dr. Robert Kiltz. 

Dr. Kiltz has a Monday night group zoom call in his private community. He also has a daily weekday 5am (Eastern Time) livestream and you can type him questions. He also does one at 10am on Sundays.

Dr. Ken Berry has what he called Monday Night Live on YouTube where you can type questions. Super chats will get priority. It's at 7pm Eastern Time. Then if you join his community, there is a much more informal and less busy Tuesday evening livestream, Wednesday morning and Wednesday evening livestream, and if you are willing to enroll in the $20/mo plan, you can participate in a group Zoom call with him on Wednesday evenings.

I think Dr. Berry in particular would be a good person to talk about your situation with

It's a bit of a coin toss. Some people's cholesterol doesn't change much. Others see their HDL go up and their LDL go down. Many see both their HDL and their LDL go up. 

I'm in it for weight loss, and there is stored cholesterol stored in adipose tissue that gets release as you lose wieght. As a result, my HDL has remained stable and I my LDL has gone up. I am unable to get an LDL reading currently due to my high triglycerides.

Bacon is a cured meat that in my opinion is quite delicious. Many people are afraid of bacon because it contains nitrates and nitrites, although we've been curing meat with these natural ingredients for thousands of years. As a result, some look for bacon that is cured using celery powder, which ironically contains the same nitrates and oftentimes even more of them.

Others look for bacon that doesn't have added sugar, and granted, some flavors of bacon, like maple bacon, can have more sugar in it that is desired. But most bacons have only a trace amount, "contains less than 2% of.... sugar" only because sugar was used in the brining solution that it soaked in. Others will spot that on the ingredients, then look at the nutrition facts table and see <1g carb per serving, and consider this acceptable.

Still others will only get bacon from their local rancher or forgo bacon altogether and just buy pork belly.

Personally, I look for bacon that has clean ingredients and no sugar added as my first choice, but I don't obsess over this. I'll still get bacon at restaurants and will have no idea what kind they are using. But since it's by and large just sliced meat, I'm very comfortable with this.

Do YOU enjoy bacon? How much do you include in your diet? Are you selective when it comes to buying bacon?

1 hour ago, Guest ARK19 said:

Consuming chicken has the opposite effect: my mental state becomes better usually the next day.

I would put this aside for now, since it's not causing a serious side effect. Coffee and beef affect you within a short time. Check makes you feel better "usually the next day". The next day is quite a difference. 

You still describe a temporary situation, with the coffee process hitting you sooner and ending sooner than the beef process. This makes sense, because it's going to take time to digest the beef and start absorbing it into your blood stream compared to the coffee which happens faster.

So we have to figure out what it is. Rising blood sugar? Rising insulin levels? Low blood sugar? Temporary inflammation?

Have you had diabetes? Are you on any medications?

On 11/5/2023 at 8:45 PM, Guest ARK19 said:

Recently I have noticed that when I consume beef I develop observable deterioration in my mental capabilities, such as loss of focus, unable to remember, and inability to form cohesive sentences. They appear to be dementia symptoms. One person close to me even commented about my poor mental state (I almost looked like a dumb person).

Those are pretty serious symptoms, and not generally anything beef alone would cause.

I think you should see your doctor and explain this to him.

While this article is not technically from "the news media" it is quite an awesome piece of journalism. It's written by Nina Teicholz, author of The Big Fat Surprise - Why Butter, Meat, & Cheese Belong in a Healthy Diet. She publishes a newsletter on substack that you could and should subscribe to called Unsettled Science. 

Article Source: https://unsettledscience.substack.com/p/harvard-has-been-anti-meat-for-30

Below is just the introduction of her article. Click the above link to read the whole thing.

Harvard Has Been Anti-Meat for 30+ Years—Why?

NINA TEICHOLZ

NOV 5, 2023

 

Red meat is bad for health. We hear this from virtually all our nutrition authorities, and so, it must be true. Far less well known is the fact that this fear of eating red meat can mainly be traced back to a single person, Harvard’s Walter C. Willett, the first and most prominent anti-meat champion in academia. Indeed, in 1990, the year before he started his 25-year reign (1991-2017) as head of the highly influential Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health (HSPH), Willett said it’s “quite possible” that “no red meat” was the optimal amount to eat.1 His more recent work has involved leading an international effort for a near-meatless diet for all people, globally. Yet this passion has never had a foundation in solid evidence. Rather, it has been based in a mixture of personal ambition, bad science, financial interests and bias.

Willett’s unswerving advocacy for vegetarianism helps provide some context for his latest paper (paywalled), claiming that red and processed meat are “strongly associated” with an increased risk of type 2 diabetes. As the accompanying Harvard press release explained, “participants who ate the most red meat had a 62% higher risk of developing type 2 diabetes compared to those who ate the least.” The findings spurred at least a hundred headlines worldwide, including this one in The NY Times and another in the Washington Post (syndicated from Bloomberg): “Drop that Hot Dog if You Value Your Health.”

Scary news indeed for the more than half of American adults estimated to have pre-diabetes or diabetes in 2012 (today’s number is no doubt higher), and this news will surely give many people pause about choosing steak instead of something from “plant protein sources,” which the Harvard researchers say are not only healthier but also better for the planet. “Swapping red meat for healthy plant protein sources would help reduce greenhouse gas emissions and climate change, and provide other environmental benefits,” they assert. The climate change implications are serious, and we should not dismiss them, yet we’re concerned here about human health—and so will stick to that.

The errors of science in the Harvard paper are both superficial and profound. However, the bigger question is: why do Willett and HSPH put out such a constant stream of findings against animal foods when nutritionists for generations have argued, with good reason, that these foods are vitally important, if not essential to human life? Meat contains all of the essential amino acids, in the ratios that are ideal for humans. They are rich in twelve of the thirteen essential vitamins. Meat, especially, is an excellent source of vitamins A, E and all the B vitamins. Vitamins D and B12 are found only in animal products (although we might be able to get sufficient vitamin D with enough outdoor exposure to the sun). Thus, whatever we might think about eating animal foods, they are, due to their essential nutrient and ideal protein content, almost certainly crucial for the proper development and functioning of all human beings. Arguing against these foods is like taking the nutrition out of nutrition studies.

 

Walter C. Willett, Chair of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health 1991-2017

What’s certain is that for 30 years, Willett has been a fervent champion of a vegetarian diet. His advocacy is run through with ideological beliefs, some linked to an actual vegan-promoting church, and it’s hard to imagine that these factors do not interfere with the pure pursuit of science. Complicating this mix are undeniable financial conflicts of interest, including multiple six-figure donations by the food industry to HSPH during Willett’s leadership. These commercial interests converge and dovetail with Willett’s personal zeal for vegetarianism; where one starts and the other ends is difficult to know.

Indeed, Willett’s career can be seen as a case study in how a person’s beliefs can lead them into a web of financial, corporate and even ideological interests aligned with those beliefs. Over the course of a 30-year career, these fuse together into a single piece, a set of golden handcuffs for the mind. Evidence to the contrary might exist, but the researcher either ignores it or finds a way to dismiss it as insignificant.

 

---

 

This article isn't over. There is a lot more to read. Some of the other subheadings are...

Some Inconvenient Observations

Spreading the Word Before Science

A Life Committed to Vegetarianism

A Careeer Funded by Vegetarian Interests

Click here to read the whole article: 
https://unsettledscience.substack.com/p/harvard-has-been-anti-meat-for-30

Click here to download the bogus Harvard study...
https://carnivoretalk.com/files/file/6-red-meat-intake-and-risk-of-type-2-diabetes-harvard/

 

 

4 hours ago, Guest ARK19 said:

After this observation, I am very much hesitant to consume beef.

Understandable. This isn't something I have heard of before. I tried doing some searches and came up with some usual things to check on.

1) Histamines. You might want to try and get something fresh from the farmer and cook it right away, rather than something from the store that has been packaged for several days. 

2) Add more salt.

3) What is your fat intake like?

The answer to number three could point you too endotoxemia from too much saturated fat at once or protein fermentation from eating too much protein.

Based on your description, the symptoms start after you have had time to digest and absorb some of this, and then wears off hours later after digestion is over. This suggests temporary inflammation. But beef is usually uninflammatory unless you are having a histamine reaction to it.

I'll turn on guest ability to Reply so you can comment further.

So, will taking a daily multivitamin be okay? Yes, it's not going to harm or impede you in any way. However, you can get everything your body needs on a carnivore diet. If you add a little beef liver to your Lion Diet (which is what you are about to do), you will probably have your bases covered.

• B1 (Thiamine) - beef liver, pork products, salmon, trout, mussels, tuna, chicken liver, fish roe.
• Biotin & Folate - beef liver and egg yolks.
• Vitamin A - beef liver, cod liver oil, butter, and a variety of cheeses.
• Vitamin C - beef, beef organs, and seafoods.
• Vitamin D - eggs, fatty fish, and you can make it by getting enough sun.
• Vitamin E - salmon and trout.
• Vitamin K - chicken, beef liver, and cheeses.
• Calcium - salmon, sardines, cheese, and milk.
• Chromium - beef and turkey
• Molybdenum - beef liver, yogurt, and milk.
• Magnesium - meat, but especially fatty fish.
• Iodine - eggs, dairy, and especially seafood.

Admittedly, Vitamin D is one micronutrient that many people need to supplement.

I take magnesium because I would need to eat 2-2.5 lbs of beef a day to meet my magnesium needs, and that's a bit much for me. I also take vitamin D because I have a history of being deficient. 

1 hour ago, Matan1262 said:

1. since I started I lost weight, almost 2 kg, now 60.9kg, I thought I would gain weight with all this good fat and protein, it is at least 2900 calories a day, Is this normal? will I gain weight? am I doing something wrong?

That's probably water-weight. Since you stopped eating carbohydrates (see the word "hydrate" in there?) and sugars, which hold water, you have used up all your glycogen stores. You probably haven't lost actual fat yet, and if you have, it is minimal. 

When you say you thought you would gain weight, are you referring to muscle weight or fat weight? If you want to gain muscle weight, keep eating this way and work out by lifting heavy weights. If you want to gain fat fluffy weight, then start eating more carbs.

1 hour ago, Matan1262 said:

2. Although I eat all this fat and drink a lot of water my Toilet exits are not normal, some are very small and watery and sometimes really dense and hard, I can have a day without going to the bathroom and the next day go 3 times. is this normal? do I just need more time to adjust? am I not eating right?

It is normal during the transition phase and yes, you probably need more time to adjust. It took me 6 weeks before I had a normal stool again. It would oscillate between the consistency of gravel that was difficult to push out and then the next time it would pour out like turning on a faucet. 

Now that I am adapted, it's usually normal. I only go to the bathroom twice a week now. 

Part of this transition phase is that your body is learning how much bile it needs to store in your gall bladder, which is necessary to digest fat. After a while, your body learns how much bile it's needs to have on hand. Then, if your stool are hard, you can add more fat, and if they are loose, you can back off the fat.

1 hour ago, Matan1262 said:

3. If I decide to add a bit of fruit after a month of experiment, which can I add? I miss avocado as part of my meal and a bit of fruit for dessert.

It sounds like you are metabolically healthy, so you can add whatever fruit you wish. Lower carb, low glycemic fruits that are tolerated on a ketogenic diet are usually a small portion of berries.

Again, this depends on your metabolic health and your goals. For example, if you have a lot of weight to lose, are insulin resistant, have metabolic syndrome, pre-diabetes or type 2 diabetes, etc, then you want to keep that carb consumption very low, typically under 20g per day, and the lower the better. But if you are metabolically healthy then you could do low carb, which is under 100g per day.

Low carb <100g actual carbs per day
Keto <20g actual carbs per day
Ketovore <10 actual carbs per day
Carnivore = animal products only, minimal carbs per day.

1 hour ago, Matan1262 said:

4. Is there a substitute for soy source for sashimi? I really miss it.

I had to look up sashimi and it looks like this means raw fish. Raw fish would be fine.

Soy sauce has like 1 carb per tablespoon, so this might be just fine for you in small quantities. It's doesn't have the cleanest of ingredients though, so you might want to do a web search for a keto-friendly soy sauce recipe substitute.

There are also keto soy sauce substitutes that you can order from Amazon or Whole Foods Market.

1 hour ago, Matan1262 said:

5. what about sushi in general? And is there a kind of rice for sushi that I can make once in a while that won't be bad for me? if not, is raw salmon + avocado inside sushi nori without rice okay once a month or two?

I think any of it would be okay if you are only eating it once a month or two. But yes, you could remove the rice and the rest would be fine.

1 hour ago, Matan1262 said:

6. After how much time should I expect a difference in sleep apnea and snoring?

This I can't answer. There could be a number of reasons that you have sleep apnea and snore. For example, enlarged tonsils or other glands in the face and sinuses. My daughter would snore and stop breathing at night. It was very disturbing and so we brought it up with her doctor. Turns out she had enlarged "kissing" tonsils and had to have them removed.

Whether your sleep apnea will resolve with diet is yet to be seen. Just not that while some people experience improvements within days of starting keto-carnivore, most people see these improvements over time. That is why it is recommended to be faithful to your dietary changes for at least 30 days, but preferably at least 90 days.

13 hours ago, Geezy said:

I didn’t see a poll

It probably doesn't show up in Tapatalk. But if you came to Carnivore Talk using your web browser you would see the poll above the first post at the top of the page.

13 hours ago, Geezy said:

I like them any way you can fix them other than balut.

I just google "balut eggs". Yes, that would be a negative for me too, lol.

13 hours ago, Geezy said:

It mostly just depends on what mood I’m in but I will say this, it is the one food I never I never tire of.

Same here. I like to switch things up usually, so I never make them the same way two days back-to-back.

13 hours ago, Geezy said:

Me and Ginger out hunting... I shoot ‘em and she tracks em down for me.

Nice! Team work makes the dream work