Welcome John!

9 hours ago, John said:

Duck legs. Roasted with salt and pepper.   Amazing flavour, crispy skin. That’s the way to go!

That sure sounds good. I've never had duck legs before (I have had duck) in the manner that you describe. Are chicken or turkey legs comparable, or is this in a league of its own? :)

Meat-eating extends human life expectancy worldwide

Posted on Feb 22 2022 by Michele Ann Nardelli

Has eating meat become unfairly demonised as bad for your health? That’s the question a global, multidisciplinary team of researchers has been studying and the results are in - eating meat still offers important benefits for overall human health and life expectancy.

Study author, University of Adelaide researcher in biomedicine, Dr Wenpeng You says humans have evolved and thrived over millions of years because of their significant consumption of meat.

“We wanted to look more closely at research that has thrown a negative spotlight on meat consumption in the human diet,” Dr You says. 

“Looking only at correlations of meat consumption with people’s health or life expectancy within a particular group, and or, a particular region or country, can lead to complex and misleading conclusions. 

“Our team broadly analysed the correlations between meat eating and life expectancy, and child mortality, at global and regional levels, minimising the study bias, and making our conclusion more representative of the general health effects of meat eating.”  
Published in the International Journal of General Medicine today, the study examined the overall health effects of total meat consumption in 170+ countries around the world. 

The researchers found that the consumption of energy from carbohydrate crops (grains and tubers) does not lead to greater life expectancy, and that total meat consumption correlates to greater life expectancy, independent of the competing effects of total calories intake, economic affluence, urban advantages, and obesity.

“Meat of small and large animals provided optimal nutrition to our ancestors who developed genetic, physiological, and morphological adaptations to eating meat products and we have inherited those adaptations” - Emeritus Professor, Maciej Henneberg

“While detrimental effects of meat consumption on human health have been found in some studies in the past, the methods and findings in these studies are controversial and circumstantial,” Dr You says.

Senior author of the study, University of Adelaide Emeritus Professor, Maciej Henneberg says humans have adapted to meat-eating from the perspective of their more than two million years evolution. 

“Meat of small and large animals provided optimal nutrition to our ancestors who developed genetic, physiological, and morphological adaptations to eating meat products and we have inherited those adaptations,” Professor Henneberg says.

But with the strong development of nutrition science and economic affluence, studies in some populations in developed countries have associated meat-free (vegetarian and vegan) diets with improved health.

“I think we need to understand that this may not contradict the beneficial effect of meat consumption,” nutritionist on the study, Yanfei Ge says.

“Studies looking into the diets of wealthy, highly educated communities, are looking at people who have the purchasing power and the knowledge to select plant-based diets that access the full nutrients normally contained in meat. Essentially, they have replaced meat with all the same nutrition meat provides.”

Co-author and University of Adelaide biologist, Dr Renata Henneberg says today meat is still a major food component in the diets of many people around the world.

“Before agriculture was introduced, 10,000 years ago, meat was a staple food in the human diet,” she says. 

“Depending on which minor groups of people you study and which meat types you choose to consider, the measure of meat’s role in human health management may vary. However, when all meat types for all the populations are considered, as they are in this study, the positive correlation between meat consumption and overall health at a population level is not sporadic.” 

Co-author, anthropologist at the University of Adelaide, and biologist at the Polish Academy of Science, Dr Arthur Saniotis says the findings are in line with other studies that show cereal-based foods have lower nutritional value than meat.

“While this is no surprise to many of us, it still needs to be pointed out,” Dr Saniotis says. It highlights that meat has its own components contributing to our overall health beyond just the number of calories consumed, and that without meat in our diet, we may not thrive.

“Our take home message from the paper is that meat-eating is beneficial to human health provided that it is consumed in moderation and that the meat industry is conducted in an ethical way.”  
 

Download the PDF...

From the article:

"This study has shown that meat intake is positively associated with life expectancy at national level. The underlying reasons may be that meat not only provides energy but also complete nutrients to human body... Meat intake, or its adequate replacement, should be incorporated into nutritional science to improve human life expectancy."

On 9/10/2023 at 7:50 PM, Qapla said:

I can tolerate medium leaning towards medium rare but not a truly medium rare.

Same here. I've eaten medium rare but I feel funny about it. Maybe it's a mental thing, but I prefer medium for sure. Medium well will start to disappoint.

On 9/10/2023 at 7:50 PM, Qapla said:

My FIL will not eat meat that is not well, well, well done.

Ugh! I can still eat a well done steak, but I won't be enjoying. I will be eating it because I paid for it and don't want it going to waste, lol.

This is also the one situation where I might actually have to call on the power of steak sauce to mask the fact that it was overcooked

Ah, those look interesting. I've never heard of them and here I figure I have eaten just about everything, lol.

If course, the breading in a traditional chicken or turkey croquette is a big NO-NO for a keto or carnivore dieter, so I would probably modify the recipe as follows...

1. Mince the meat and shape your croquette.
2. Roll it in almond flour and fully coat it (skip this step if you are Carnivore).
3. Dip it in beaten eggs and immediately cover with crushed pork rinds.
4. Bake at 375-400 degrees for 15-20 minutes.

Of course, this is off the top of my head and I will have to test this the next time I have chicken or turkey.
 

21 hours ago, Qapla said:

I will admit, if you're going to make chicken/turkey croquettes

That must be a southern thing because I have never heard of croquettes before. I see that word I think of...

So I am a white meat guy. I usually prefer a chicken breast. I'll default to turkey breast also but will admit that turkey can be much more dry.

I've had goose, duck, and pheasant, but that was when i was a child so I don't have much memory of what they tasted like. 

As far as organ meats, I have had beef liver and turkey hearts. They are both good. I definitely want to try other organ meats as they are usually supercharged with nutrition. 

So if you are on true keto, Ketovore, or Carnivore diet, beef is probably your staple food, and steak is probably your preference. There are various degrees of steak doneness. Which one of these is the perfect steak for you?

Here's a very inspirational interview she did with Dr. Ken Berry MD. It's worth watching!

7 hours ago, billy said:

I am wondering if my meals are to large?

I have been following the advice to eat until really full hence quite a lot on the plate.

Those are large meals, but I think you are doing fine. Although it is often said that there is no need to count calories on carnivore, we can still use it for reference. The average adult requires about 2000 calories per day. I know people who do OMAD (one meal a day) and when they sit down for that one meal, boy do they make it count. You basically want to get at least 1g of protein per pound of your goal weight, and then plenty of fat for energy. You are probably getting that with what you are eating. The foods you describe are going to be nutrient dense, so it's not surprising if you don't feel hungry.

If you were only eating 1000 calories a day I would warn you that portion controlling is going to throw off your metabolism and slow down your weight loss. But it doesn't sound like you are portion controlling. Eat until you are comfortably stuffed (not uncomfortably stuffed).

If you are happy with one meal a day, then you're probably fine with those hearty portions. If you want to do 2 meals a day, then maybe scale them back so you are spreading that 2000 calories (that we don't count) across 2 meals instead of one.

(And remember we are just using 2000 calories as an example. Maybe you eat 1800. Maybe you eat 2800. This will vary per person).

Welcome Billy,

There is definitely a balance to be had. On the one hand, many people intentionally practice fasting, either intermittently by eating within a certain window of time each day (your feasting window) and then not eating for the remainder of that day (your fasting window). Most people start with 16/8, which means 16 hours straight of no food (you sleep for about 8 of these) and then eating as needed within that 8-hour window. Others will shrink their feasting window and do 18/6 or 20/4, etc. And then there are those who like to do 24, 36, 48 hours of fasting or more. 

I broke my ankle in the May and knowing my physical activity would suffer I decided then to go full carnivore, 2 meals a day, on a 16/8 intermittent fasting schedule. I was satisfied and continued to lose 10 more pounds while I couldn't put weight on the leg. I made those 2 meals count. Breakfast was several eggs and a large portion of breakfast meat, and dinner was usually a minimum 16oz striploin steak or 1 lb. of ground beef.

The purpose of fasting is for healing. After about 16-24 hours your body starts experiencing autophagy, and it starts breaking down unnecessary cells for energy. This cleans up dead cells, fat cells, unnecessary cells, etc, while preserving important cells like muscle and organs.

Now on the other hand, under eating can signal to the body that there is a famine, and so the body will lower metabolism to conserve resources. This is the body's natural way of getting us through difficult times until food was more abundant. With a lowered metabolism, the weight comes off slower or stops coming off and you hit a plateau. When this happens, you need to eat more (maybe gradually) to signal to your body that the famine is over.

As a general rule, you want to eat 2-3 meals a day until you are comfortably full, with no snacking in-between, whether you are carnivore or ketovore. I woudn't necessarily force a meal down, but I may make sure that meal or meals are nice and hardy.

What do you eat in a typical day now that you don't feel hunger and find yourself skipping meals?

Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-12382257/I-lost-121LBS-year-following-CARNIVORE-diet-cut-grocery-bill-60.html

I lost 121LBS in a year by following the CARNIVORE diet - and it also cut my grocery bill down by 60%

• Amanda Lipstate, from Washington, has shared her weight-loss transformation
• The 33-year-old 'was in the depths of despair' when she weighed 360lbs
• But, after switching diets, she has revealed how her whole lifestyle changed

By RAVEN SAUNT FOR DAILYMAIL.COM

UPDATED: 10:46 EDT, 8 August 2023

A woman has revealed how she lost 121lbs in just one year after switching to the carnivore diet.

Amanda Lipstate, from Bellingham, Washington, has been candidly sharing her weight-loss transformation on social media after deciding to turn her life around.

The physical therapist, 33, said that she 'was in the depths of despair' when she weighed 360lbs and was keen for things to change.

Now, at 239lbs, she has revealed how her whole lifestyle has improved as well as claiming the switch in diet has helped cut her grocery bill by 60 per cent.

Amanda has said that she had been overweight since she was a teenager and was plagued with a whole host of health issues.

She told Newsweek that she was diagnosed with scleroderma - a rare autoimmune disease - aged 18 before also being told she had Raynaud's phenomenon - which impacts blood vessels in the hands and feet, sleep apnea and gastroesophageal reflux disease.

The quick succession of diagnoses left her battling with 'severe depression and anxiety' which often meant she 'wouldn't leave the house for months at a time.'

By aged 32, she weighed 360lbs, had type two diabetes and needed the aid of a walker to get around.

She wrote on her blog: 'For two decades of my life, I carried the weight of struggles that came with being obese. 

'I battled against my own body, trying countless diets in the pursuit of transformation.'

But in June 2022, Amanda made the decision to turn her life around once and for all - and quickly landed on a solution.

She told the publication: 'What prompted this change was going to the hospital in severe pain thinking I was going to die. 

'While sitting in the hospital bed I remember looking over at my husband and it struck me that all my choices in life had led me here.

'The next day, I went home and we got rid of all of the sugars and carbs in my house.'

Her blog post read: 'It was in the depths of my despair that I stumbled upon a revelation that would alter the course of my life forever - the carnivore diet.' 

Amanda decided to make the switch to the regime which sees followers typically eat just meat, with no carbohydrates, vegetables, fruit, grains or nuts. 

But she revealed that at first the transition wasn't easy, adding: 'I'd been eating the standard American diet for my entire life. 

'I had to fully accept and understand that eating what I wanted led to me being morbidly obese and severely depressed. 

'I'd experienced meat aversion a few times, but I realized that it was my brain throwing a tantrum wanting sugar and carbs.'

However, Amanda quickly started seeing improvements in her overall health as she was no longer suffering with joint pain, brain fog or fluid retention - and she no longer has type two diabetes meaning she does not need to regulate her glucose levels with medicine.

She said that she 'embraced the power of simplicity' and about six weeks after getting hooked on the diet she 'began to value' herself again.

Now, just over 12 months in, Amanda has lost a staggering 121lbs and believes her whole way of life has improved. 

She also revealed that the diet had resulted in huge financial savings too as she cut her grocery bill down by 60 per cent.

Amanda is now hoping to encourage others to follow suit, concluding: 'The hardships I endured were not in vain; they served as the catalyst for my transformation. 

'Through the carnivore diet, I not only discovered a way to heal my body but also uncovered a newfound purpose - a purpose that drives me to uplift and inspire others on their own paths to wellness.'

8 hours ago, Janet said:

One of my clients has MS. He is considering going to MEXICO for some procedure not approved here. Are there any cases studies about MS and carnivore. 

Hi Janet! Welcome aboard.

I found a couple studies that show benefits of a Ketogenic Diet in people with MS. A Carnivore Diet would definitely apply here because a Carnivore Diet is essentially the ultimate Keto diet. Here are some excerpts and links you may find interesting...

Study #1: Pilot study of a ketogenic diet in relapsing-remitting MS says:

"[Ketogenic Diet] is safe, feasible to study, and well tolerated in subjects with relapsing [Multiple Sclerosis]. [Ketogenic Diet] improves fatigue and depression while also promoting weight loss and reducing serologic proinflammatory adipokines."

Study #2: Phase II study of ketogenic diets in relapsing multiple sclerosis: safety, tolerability and potential clinical benefits says:

"Subjects... showed a nearly 50% decline in self-reported fatigue and depression scores. MS QoL physical health and mental health composite scores increased on-diet. Significant improvements were noted in Expanded Disability Status Scale scores, 6-minute walk and Nine-Hole Peg Test. Serum leptin was lower and adiponectin was higher on the [Ketogenic Diet]... and yield improvements in body composition, fatigue, depression, QoL, neurological disability and adipose-related inflammation in persons living with relapsing [Multiple Sclerosis]."

I believe those two published studies served as the basis for this article here:

https://news.virginia.edu/content/ketogenic-diet-shows-major-benefits-multiple-sclerosis

You might also like this video/podcast where Dr. Anthony Chaffee (a notable pioneer in the carnivore diet community) interviews another Doctor, Doctor Sarah, who used a canivore diet for her MS...

Honestly, I don't have much air fryer experience. We have a little one that is barely used, and when I did use it, I was still eating things like tater tots and pizza rolls. Since I started eating Keto and then eventually Ketovre/Carnivore I haven't touched the air fryer.

However, I have read some comments from other people who say they cook steaks in an air fryer and they turn out well. I would have never thought that you could cook real actual meat in an air fryer, aside from wings. I think in my mind air fryer was just a substitute for a deep fryer, sans the oil. So you talking about cooking chicken breast in one is something I need to try as well.

I'll probably experiment more with it in the winter. Summer is for grillin'

From the article:

Quote

The panel suggests that adults continue current unprocessed red meat consumption (weak recommendation, low-certainty evidence). Similarly, the panel suggests adults continue current processed meat consumption (weak recommendation, low-certainty evidence)...

...we found low- to very low-certainty evidence that diets lower in unprocessed red meat may have little or no effect on the risk for major cardiometabolic outcomes and cancer mortality and incidence...

... meat consumption is unlikely to be a causal factor of adverse health outcomes...

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M19-1621

This means you can enjoy that ribeye, and that bacon 

I'll have to give that a try.

I have a huge bag of almond flour that I got from Sam's Club, but I've been neglecting it for a while since I've been leaning more towards carnivore. But almond flour is an excellent product and you can make quite a few things with it. I used to use it to make pancakes along with eggs and flax seed meal, and have sugar free syrup with it.

But what really impressed me was a "fat head pizza crust" recipe I found that uses cheese and almond flour, much like your recipe. When I made the pizza, it was amazing, very comparable to a pizza you would get from a store or restaurant that would normally be loaded with nutritionally void white flour. It was better to me than the cauliflower pizza crusts I had made in the years past.

13 hours ago, Amatia said:

My cardiologist just informed me that I had to lower my cholesterol - looking forward to sharing - so thankful for this board!

Tia

Information about cholesterol has been changing over the last 10-15 years, and a lot of Doctor's aren't up to date. If all your other blood markers are in range and your eating a proper diet (fresh, unprocessed, clean keto, or carnivore) then higher cholesterol might not be an issue at all. 

My was 192 the last time I had it tested. I'm willing to bet it's higher now but I am okay with that.

8 hours ago, Qapla said:

Yes, this diet seems to be more in line with trying to help with things like blood sugar, high cholesterol, high blood pressure and other physical ailments that often require medication to control if a proper diet is not followed instead of weight loss.

Well all that fruit isn't going to help that blood sugar. I would toss that food pyramid in the trash and replace it with this one...

12 hours ago, Amatia said:

anyone ever use "kick "N" chicken" seasoning?  my daughter seasoned some chicken with it for a congregation gathering - it was quite tasty?  Well, I know I will have to cut that out! 

Cut out the kick'n chicken seasoning?

Ingredients:
Onion, Salt, Garlic, Spices, Red Pepper, Orange Peel, Sugar, Red Bell Pepper, Paprika Extractives (Color).

That looks fine to me. A low carb keto dieter would have no problem with those ingredients. Some carnivore dieters might object to the plants used in the seasoning and just stick to pink Himalayan salt or Redmond's salt.

Unless I misunderstood you. 

So I can see how this is Keto inspired, as a lot of the items listed is actually quite accurate for a Low Carb or somewhat clean Keto plan. But the pyramid is unfortunately not. You can tell that the person(s) who put this together is pro-plants and ant-fat. To explain....

It mentions lean roast beef, lean hamburger, canadian bacon (which is lean ham), and poultry without the skin, which is lean. But a keto diet is keeping your carbohydrate intake under 20g per day to get your body to enter a state of ketosis, where it burns fat for energy due to the lack of carbs. So the keto dieter actually wants fatty red meat, regular bacon, and chicken with the skin (which is where the fat is). Similarly, it mentions low fat cheese. You actually want full fat cheese. Anything labeled low fat, skim, etc, is a keto dieters enemy.

Also, fruit is out, at least until you reach your goal weight. But apples, grapes, oranges, etc are full of fructose (sugar) and will kick you out of ketosis. A few berries, like rapseberries, strawberries, or blueberries, is okay as they have much less sugar and carbs. They also say to eliminate nuts, but some nuts (not all) are okay for keto dieters. Again, the person(s) who put this together have been misled to believe that fat is the enemy instead of carbs.

On the plus side, it does promote a more whole foods approach than the standard american junk diet. They don't want you eating processed or ultra-processed foods, which is always a good thing.

@cwise - if you like Mexican food, give this a try. Even my kids loved it and they are not very fond of cauliflower as a rice substitute.

The first part of this recipe is basically a Spanish rice recipe. You will need the following...

Cauliflower rice
Olive oil
Onion
Garlic
Tomato paste
Chili powder
Cumin
Salt

How to make Low Carb Mexican Cauliflower Rice...

1. Place a large frying pan over medium-low heat. Add the butter, garlic powder, and onion flakes and gently sauté for 3 minutes.
2. Add the cauliflower rice, salt, and pepper and sauté for 3 minutes, until the cauliflower is beginning to soften.
3. Add the tomato puree and stir well. Continue to cook for another 3-5 minutes until the cauliflower is cooked through.
4. Take the pan off the heat and stir through the cilantro.

That's all there is to the rice. You might want to make the meat first and put it on simmer and then make this. If you make this first and have it simmer it may dry out.

The second part of this recipe is cooking either your beef or chicken with the appropriate mexican seasonings.

The third part of this is chopping up and gathering your toppings, such as sour cream, diced tomatoes or salsa, avacado or guacamole, shredded cheese, and whatever else you like in a taco salad or taco bowl.

Finally, add it all together, with the rice on the bottom, the meat in the middle, and the cold items on top. You can put sauces like sour cream or salsa inbetween layers or just one top, which ever you prefer.

Again, my family found this to be a stellar substitute for going out for Mexican food, and even the kids were satisfied.

Here is a picture (although not the greatest) of the last time I made it...

I had some pretty creative recipes when I was doing True Keto. I will try and find some and post them here. Some of them even the kids would say was fantastic.

The combination of summertime and my focus on carnivore has made me lazy in that I usually fire up the grill and cook up some meat.

14 minutes ago, cwise said:

I'm really happy about this forum. I'm sure it will help me and my husband(I'm sharing experiences with him) maybe he will join. 

That would be great. He would be considered one of the founding fathers

4 hours ago, cwise said:

Now we're both trying to get back to where we were.

You did it before. You can do it again!

Admittedly, whenever I have fallen off this lifestyle and WOE it has been a struggle to get back on. It takes me weeks to get into that diet mindset again, and I usually start with low carb, lazy/dirty keto through the week, then screw up on the weekend, and repeat, lol. But with each week I get more disciplined and my resolve to eat right gets stronger.

5 hours ago, cwise said:

Your right @Dismal_Bliss about things being tainted. Mathematical trickery is the only thing I see at the store.  So it requires me to be vigilant and busier in planning and preparing.

Back when I read New Diet Revolution, I don't think there was such a thing as "Net Carbs". The book may have talked about fiber not counting, but I honestly can't remember. But then when low carb and keto became trendy, then suddenly there was all these ingredients, all carbs, that magically didn't count. I kinda bought into it and that may have been part of the reason weight loss wasn't as successful in susequent diet attempts.

So when I went clean Keto, I vowed no sugar, no grain, and not net carb nonsense ever again. I basically have to cook everything now, but it's always fresh, whole, one-ingredient foods found in nature, and I am finding success again.

But I was a plant-based keto dieter, namely, the Salad King! lol. As I learned about carnivore and implemented it, the results were amazing - and backed by blood work and other measurements - something regular low carb and dirty keto couldn't accomplish in me. So now I am like 97% carnivore, which some people say I should call "ketovore". In summary, I am animal-based keto instead of plant based keto now.

Now I just have to stick to the vow and do this for life