Six Weeks in, Sick, Miserable & Exhausted, is this normal?

[Jen]

I'm wondering what's going on because in general, I've had very positive results, until now. 

I started eating this way at the end of November last year. I'm doing carnivore during the week and ketovore on the weekends, adding a few low carb, low oxalate vegetables and berries. I'm not strict carnivore, and still use herbs and spices, small amounts of dairy and drink one cup of tea a day. I use Stevia and Erythritol.

I came to this diet already grain free and sugar free, and still in recovery from an iatrogenic toxic nervous system injury over 10 years ago which had left me with a CFS type chronic illness and lots of intermittent issues from inflammation, metabolic syndrome and most likely pre-diabetic, I have about 60 lbs to lose, but health is my priority.

First few days of eating this way were great, then I went through the 2 week transition, keto flu stage, with some psychological bumps, then back to feeling great until I got a cold/flu, which lasted about 5 days. Then 2 weeks of feeling amazing with heaps of energy, motivation and very fast healing of things which normally take a long time. I started exercising regularly and was speeding through my chores every day, cognitively better than I had been in a long time. The list of improvements in my physical and mental health is too long to write.....but....

I started feeling awful exactly 1 week ago:

Not sleeping properly, fatigue during the day, low mood, irritability, anxiety, temperature dysregulation, sinus inflammation came back, eye floaters came back and got worse, eye itching and leaking came back, joint pain came back, brain fog came back, virus issues flared up, none of this is new, it's old issues coming back with a vengeance after they had got a lot better or completely gone.

I have stuck with the diet, but due to fatigue I haven't been able to keep up with my new exercise routine and have only been able to drag myself out to walk every other day, rather than daily. 

There are 2 things which could possibly be causing this, but I don't know and would love some input from others who have been doing this longer than me.

Last weekend, a week ago, I 'accidently' ate some wheat on Saturday and Sunday, it was in a shop bought meatloaf, I had in the freezer. I hadn't read the ingredients list. I had been grain free even before going carnivore, so this might have been too much for my system to handle?? But would the effects of this last this long?

Also, I'm fairly sure I'm having oxalate dumping issues, and these are ongoing, could this be causing a recurrence of old symptoms? At first it was, and still is presenting as skin issues, but now all these other symptoms are arising. I'm trying to include a few low oxalate foods, especially on the weekends, to slow down the dumping, it's difficult to know what to do or what to eat in order to manage this.

Is it normal to experience ups and downs when starting to eat this way, beyond the transition phase? Could eating a small amount of wheat after being wheat free cause such a big reaction? I'm so tired I'm finding it hard to drag myself off the couch again  and after feeling amazing for a few weeks, it's confusing and disheartening.

[Geezy]

In my experience and from what I hear from other carnivores what you’re describing is not normal.
Yes, it could very well be from eating that wheat as well as oxalate dumping and it could all be exacerbated but the fact that you are causing confusion in your metabolism by going off and on with your carnivore diet. By quitting carnivore on the weekends you may be shutting down your bodies ability to become fat adapted.
Judging by your description you are not sugar free. Eating fruit is still eating sugar in the form of fructose.


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[Bob]

On 1/21/2024 at 8:45 PM, Jen said:

Last weekend, a week ago, I 'accidently' ate some wheat on Saturday and Sunday, it was in a shop bought meatloaf, I had in the freezer. I hadn't read the ingredients list. I had been grain free even before going carnivore, so this might have been too much for my system to handle?? But would the effects of this last this long?

I wouldn't think so. When I occasionally have a veggie or piece of fruit, nothing happens for me. I am unphased. The 2 times I actually had a bite of bread (literally just a bite) I became instantly ravenous and couldn't stop eating. It was a very weird, drug like effect. One was a bite of pumpkin bread my wife made in the autumn and the other was a bite of a sandwhich my son made and wanted me to try. One bite - and I had the munchies like I had never had them before. I gorged on good stuff, but it was still very strange to feel such strong cravings. 

There is something else at play here. You've experienced benefits of the diet, so you know it's good for you. A couple things that come to mind are...

1) Might you have caught another bug or didn't quite kick the last one? Some of those symptoms sound similar to an infection.

2) What are you eating exactly. Let's analyze it. You can also get more strict. Beef only or BBBE (beef butter bacon eggs) are perfect elimination diets.

3) Do you take electrolytes? 

If you are not getting enough food, fat, or electrolytes you could end up feeling run down. This might be a good place to start.

[Jen]

Thanks Geezy and Bob for your comments and suggestions.

My brain fog has cleared a bit this morning and I've come to the conclusion that I have multiple things going on and I'm not going to figure it out, or find a simple solution, yes Bob, I'm sure part of it is infection related.  I'm accepting that whatever is happening, I can't control it, and it will pass eventually. This is what my life has been like for the past 12 years or so, very slow recovery from a damaged nervous system, with lots of steps forward and steps back, feeling better for a while, then crashing, it's just more of the same with the added stress and confusion of a major change in diet I think.

From 2012 - 2015 I was almost entirely bed bound, unable to function apart from in the most basic ways and having to take care of myself, so my diet was horrendous for several years. When I was feeling better, I was able to eat better and finding keto at the end of 2019 gave my recovery a boost, until I fell off the keto wagon due to C19 chaos.

I'm sticking with the diet and I'm going to re-evaluate at the end of February, which will be 90 days. I'll decide then if I'm going strict carnivore or sticking with what I'm doing.

Yes I'm taking electrolytes, I was taking them separately, but on Monday my keto electrolyte formula arrived, so I've been taking those. 

[Jen]

It’s been about a week since I last posted about these symptoms and just wanted to update. I’m feeling slightly better, but these symptoms continue:

Strange Rash, parts heal but then it appears in new places.

Cloudy Urine, I only noticed this recently.

Sore Eyes

Brain Fog & Fatigue 

Histamine Symptoms, nasal congestion, mucus and inflammation.

After doing more research about oxalates, especially what happens when you cut them out, I’m almost certain this is what’s causing my problems 

Could Oxalate Toxicity Be The Cause Of Your Symptoms

Interestingly, I self diagnosed as autistic about 15 years ago, after identifying with the particular issues it causes, and now wonder if I’ve been sensitive to oxalates my whole life and didn’t know.

[Geezy]

That is certainly a possibility. Oxalates build up and cause all kinds of problems. They just one of the many plant toxins that poison our bodies. It my understanding that it can take a year or longer for your body to expel them.

Here’s an article about them from Dr. Kiltz. I hope it helps.

https://www.doctorkiltz.com/oxalate/


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[Bob]

10 hours ago, Jen said:

After doing more research about oxalates, especially what happens when you cut them out, I’m almost certain this is what’s causing my problems 

Could Oxalate Toxicity Be The Cause Of Your Symptoms

Interesting article. Based on your list of symptoms compared to the article, you may very well be onto something. 

I haven't studied oxylates much because I haven't had any dumping issues. But what is interesting is after reading that article, I may have had oxylate toxicity that contributed to my kidney problems. You read down the list of foods that are high in oxylates, and I had been chowing down on almost all those things for years and years.