Dr. Paul Saradino and Carnivore

[Mesa_John]

Anyone read the books from Dr. Paul Saradino..... or Dr. Carnivore as they have called him?

I listened to a podcast this morning, where he is rethinking Carnivore and has quit the diet after years being on it.  His reasons....  Insomnia, low testosterone levels and muscle cramping.

I think his diet is still very heavy and strong on meats and organs, but he has now incorporated some carbs very strategically.....  I don't think his diet is even considered KETO, as Carb intake could be as high as 150-200 grams of Carbs a day.

 

Wonder what everyone's thoughts are on this?????

 

 

 

 

[Orweller]

I've never considered Saladino an authority on the subject. I do prefer Eric Westman, when it comes to keto/Adkins approach outside of the carnivore spectrum. 
 

Also, a "small pre-surf meal" is also a meal. There's insulin response, a degree of inflammatory response. There's no such thing as a snack. So that statement is already a bit disingenuous. It's like when people say; I am doing a avocado fast, or whatever, you're not fasting! You are eating avocado's! lol. 

Lastly, 180gr of carbs is crazy. That is not even a discussion for me. And then the overconsumption of organ meat... 

That's just me personally. Carbs are carbs are carbs. 

[Mesa_John]

54 minutes ago, Orweller said:

I've never considered Saladino an authority on the subject. I do prefer Eric Westman, when it comes to keto/Adkins approach outside of the carnivore spectrum. 
 

Also, a "small pre-surf meal" is also a meal. There's insulin response, a degree of inflammatory response. There's no such thing as a snack. So that statement is already a bit disingenuous. It's like when people say; I am doing a avocado fast, or whatever, you're not fasting! You are eating avocado's! lol. 

Lastly, 180gr of carbs is crazy. That is not even a discussion for me. And then the overconsumption of organ meat... 

That's just me personally. Carbs are carbs are carbs. 

I agree with you 100%.

I just found it interesting that he noted.... Insomnia, low testosterone levels and muscle cramping.

If anyone were to ask me what the negatives of Carnivore are for me in my first 2 weeks, those three things would top my list.

* The sleep thing is frustrating.  Get up three times a night to urinate and then wake up, wide-eyed at 3:30-4am, even on Sunday when I would like to sleep in.  (I don't function well with less than 6 hours of sleep.)

* Debilitating leg cramps.... even with huge salt consumption and pounding electrolytes. (Eating more salt and trace minerals then ever in my life.)

* No sex drive whatsoever the past 10 days. (It was good and I was very active before Carnivore)

 

 

........

[Mesa_John]

1 hour ago, Orweller said:

.......I do prefer Eric Westman, when it comes to keto/Adkins approach outside of the carnivore spectrum.......
 

 

 

[Orweller]

34 minutes ago, Mesa_John said:

 

He always provides a very balanced view. No rhetoric, no dogma, just offers great advice and has tons of clinical experience. He also emphasizes fat intake. Laslty, he acknowledges that carnivore or keto may not be for some, instead a low carb (sub 100gr) approach may be the answer. 

[Bob]

Dr. Saladino's book "The Carnivore Code" is an amazing work. And Saladino is a great guy in the health sphere and very thorough in his research. 

Yes, he did eventually have issues with the carnivore diet. Other carnivore doctors and influencers have offered theories as to why it didn't work out for Saladino long term, but it does work out for many of us long term, the most prominent being too much vitamin A and copper from all the organ meats he eats on a regular basis. 

His "Animal-based Diet" which is basically carnivore with added fruit and honey. We welcome animal-based dieters here. Depending on one's personal health, weight, and physiology, it might be a good option. And then for others, it's not.

Personally, I think the principles he teaches are worthy of consideration but he recommends that individuals consume what I think is way too many carbohydrates.

Sadly, he is needlessly dogged on by carnivore zealots/purists these days.

[Geezy]

4 hours ago, Mesa_John said:

I listened to a podcast this morning, where he is rethinking Carnivore and has quit the diet after years being on it.  His reasons....  Insomnia, low testosterone levels and muscle cramping.

He actually did this a long time ago.  I subscribe to him and get emails from him regularly. He no longer called himself carnivore but instead meat based. 
And he’s right, he’s not carnivore but many of his carnivore principles are sound. 

 

2 hours ago, Mesa_John said:

If anyone were to ask me what the negatives of Carnivore are for me in my first 2 weeks, those three things would top my list.

The difference between what you have experienced and what Salidino experienced was the time frame. Paul had been carnivore for a long time whereas you have only been doing this for a short time. What you were experiencing was what most of us go through in the beginning. Many call it keto flu or the adaptation phase and it’s perfectly normal as our bodies adjust but once we become fat adapted things generally level off. 
Unfortunately a lot of people experience those issues in the beginning and quit because they just don’t understand that the body must adapt. 
 

I like Paul but I think he’s off base in telling people that they all need to eat the way he does.  Everyone is different and processes Their food differently so what works for him won’t work for everyone, especially me. No way I could eat like he does. Pure carnivore works great for me and I won’t be changing anytime soon. 

[Mesa_John]

I greatly appreciate all of your wisdom and experience (you three above).  I think you have become experts on your own bodies, a place I hope to get to one of these days.  You're also very, very well informed about the current research.

Because at the end of the day, everyone is different and we need to find our own paths.

.........

Edited February 24 by Mesa_John

[Scott F.]

He did make changes some time back. I think it mostly proofs the point we have to do what is right for us as individuals, first and foremost. If that plan works for him then so be it. If it needs to have another name created, then again, so be it.

Maybe even a bigger hope is that the process created people who are thinking for themselves. I read a lot of his work and watched a number of his videos. I am sure there are a handful of people who will move off carnivore and 'adopt' his new way of eating just because 'he said so'. 

All the benefits from eating real foods are great but learning to think for yourself and not follow the norm just because it is the norm, that's much better.

On a similar note, I met a guy who is 63 and was on the carnivore approach for four plus years. He is jacked and puts in 'young man' work in the gym, even at 63 years old. He progresses thru his workout heavier and heavier each week with a couple of rest days in between. His peak day is Friday morning and he puts in a lot of work on that day. He morphed his carnivore outside the envelope as he now eats two baked sweet potatoes smothered in butter on Thursday night.

He says this plan works for him. Carnivore six days a week, a carnivore based high fat/moderate protein and then add the two potatoes once per week. I am not sure what he has named his approach but just by appearance, it is working for him.

Again, I doubt there is anything that can be considered cookie cutter when eating this way.

Scott

[Orweller]

2 hours ago, Bob said:

His "Animal-based Diet" which is basically carnivore with added fruit and honey.

Up to a 180 grams of carbs is in my opinion, no longer, an animal based diet. It's not even a low carb diet. Paleo would be a lot closer to what he eats, sort of. It's no longer someone who's in the Keto realm, far removed from what the keto/carnivore space. And all of that is fine. Then why not just say, "I quit the diet and now eat whole foods again". And again, you know I am far from a purist, but advocating high fat, and then those amounts of carbs, is irresponsible. It just Randles me, I mean, rattles me lol. 

[Bob]

3 hours ago, Orweller said:

Up to a 180 grams of carbs is in my opinion, no longer, an animal based diet.

I agree, which is why I said "[the amount] he recommends that individuals consume... is way too many carbohydrates". He personally claims to eat 300-400 grams a day. That's 1200-1600 calories from carbs. Is it "animal-based" when half or more of your caloric intake comes from plants? lol. 

3 hours ago, Orweller said:

It just Randles me

I see what you did there, lol

 

[Orweller]

39 minutes ago, Bob said:

I agree, which is why I said "[the amount] he recommends that individuals consume... is way too many carbohydrates". He personally claims to eat 300-400 grams a day. That's 1200-1600 calories from carbs. Is it "animal-based" when half or more of your caloric intake comes from plants? lol. 

I see what you did there, lol

 

Exactly. I think it is fine for him to eat what he wants, but he wants to keep his brand as well. Can't have the cake and eat it right? Oh, wait, for him it actually seems to work. 

I am saying all this not out of hate. I just know that my wife eats like that and she is far from being carnivore, keto, or even low carb. I stress, she is a long distance athlete and has a very fit body and lifestyle. In one of Saladino's videos I saw him put an entire watermelon in the blender and drink it. Made me think of vegans, they seem to use watermelons to remain satiated during the day, and that even there's such thing as "watermelon belly". 

Saladino may be great for those who are not interested in keto, low-carb, or carnivore. But in my view, he's just rationalizing his addiction. I am aware he gets flack from the zealots out there, and maybe rightfully so, but that ain't my fight. I just like honesty, don't piss on my leg and tell me it rains. Don't tell me your animal based while blending a watermelon. It's just so insincere. Coming from a guy who ate 2 cookies yesterday and call myself carnivore! I fell off in a weak moment lol. Back on track. 

[Geezy]

I greatly appreciate all of your wisdom and experience (you three above).  I think you have become experts on your own bodies, a place I hope to get to one of these days.  You're also very, very well informed about the current research.
Because at the end of the day, everyone is different and we need to find our own paths.
.........

You are exactly right. We can only speak from our own experience and what we’ve read of other’s experiences.
We are all on individual paths no doubt.


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[Mesa_John]

Has anyone visited Saradino's website and seen this tool where he gives great detail on items KETO folks should not be eating?  Below is the one for Mushrooms.

I wonder what everyone thinks about this information.

Here's the link to the page:  https://www.paulsaladinomd.co/bullshit

 

Edited February 28 by Mesa_John

[Skeptic]

Saladino seems to get a lot of press, and he does ruffle a lot of feathers , but let's say I am skeptical of his motives after examining some of his work.

This is not the first time I have visited his site, and I will say that he does seem to get things right on the page the above link takes you to.  In my opinion, nothing listed on that page is ideal to eat.  Another way to say it is that I do not believe that anything listed there will improve your health by consuming it.

Can you eat mushrooms?  Yes, you can of course, but I dont believe we should.  I have cut mushrooms out of my diet, and precisely for the reasons listed by Saladino.

I see that he is still promoting the eating of fruits, which I do not personally see as beneficial to our health.  Fruits bring with them fructose, which is far more damaging to our bodies even than glucose!  Can you eat an apple in season?  Of course you can, but we are right back to the mushroom questions again.  I dont personally believe we reap any benefit by consuming fruits either, so I disagree with Saladino in that regard.

Then there is this video about "needing carbs" after which I pretty much stopped listening to him.

Very interested to hear what other's take is!

 

Edited February 28 by Skeptic

[Orweller]

Saladino is irrelevant to the keto/carnivore space. Unless you like watermelon and honey, then he is the expert you wanna listen to. You can be carnivore and eat a pot of honey without the guilt. 

[Geezy]

I agree with him on eating mushrooms. They are not necessary for proper nutrition and add nothing beneficial to the body.
Someone eating a keto diet can eat them if they choose because keto is all about the carb counting so as long as go over the carb limit they are ok.
As a carnivore I will not eat vegetables because they provide nothing nutritional or bio available for my body. I can get all of the nutrition I need from meat.
I will on occasion though indulge in one fruit and that’s jalapeños. Gotta have my bacon wrapped poppers every once in awhile. My only cheat.


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[Bob]

On 2/27/2025 at 7:15 PM, Mesa_John said:

Has anyone visited Saradino's website and seen this tool where he gives great detail on items KETO folks should not be eating?  Below is the one for Mushrooms.

I wonder what everyone thinks about this information.

Paul Saladino is a wealth of great and accurate information, and this list is spot on. It does make my heart sad though, because I do like tomatoes and peppers, which are fruits, which he normally would say is fine, but not from the nightshade family. I still have them from time to time. 

I agree with his philosophy that if it's the seeds, roots, stems, or leaves of the plant, it should probably be avoided - with maybe iceberg lettuce being the exception. It's basically just crunchy water, lol.

On 2/27/2025 at 9:10 PM, Skeptic said:

Another way to say it is that I do not believe that anything listed there will improve your health by consuming it.

And that would be because what Geezy said here is true...

On 2/27/2025 at 10:13 PM, Geezy said:

I can get all of the nutrition I need from meat.

If we are eating a proper carnivore diet (fresh meat and eggs) then we are getting everything we need. The amount of bioavailable nutrition in the vegetables pale in comparison, in that you are not really supplementing yourself with anything special by consuming them.

On 2/27/2025 at 9:10 PM, Skeptic said:

Then there is this video about "needing carbs" after which I pretty much stopped listening to him.

And I would agree with you and disagree with Saladino here. It's been proven that humans do not need carbohydrates. He used to believe the same thing in his book, The Carnivore Code, which is a fantastic resource, btw.