Bloodwork results / concerns

[Lynn D]

Hello All.

We had bloodwork done before starting Carnivore (thanks again Bob for recommending Own Your Labs).
Some items I have questions about:

My BUN is 25, indicated as "High".
BUN/Creatinine ratio is 34, "High".   (These worry me because my Dad died of kidney failure from a wretched hereditary disease.)

Total cholesterol 317,  "High"
LDL 208,  "High"

Triglycerides 91
HDL 95
VLDL 14

Again, this bloodwork was done prior to starting Carnivore  (our diet was high-fat plant-based Keto, but with lots of butter, cream and cheese).

Anyone out there well-versed in interpreting labs...?

[Bob]

Are these the before carnivore results or the after-some-time on carnivore results?

I wouldn't worry yet. Most of what I see is common. Urea nitrogen in the blood (BUN) is a is a waste product that's created in the liver when the body breaks down proteins. On carnivore, you eat more protein, and this create more waste. You will see BUN and creatinine rise as a result, but this does not translate to kidney damage (remember, I have CKD). If you were to stop eating meat and swap it out for lettuce, you would consume less protein, produce less urea nitrogen, and less creatinine, and these numbers would go down. These marker can potentially say something about kidney function, but our diet will skew the results and raise false flags.

Those on keto/carnivore don't subscribe to the "diet-heart hypothesis" and therefore don't believe LDL to be a concern anymore. You do however want low Triglycerides (under 150) and higher HDL (over 50). A 2:1 trig:hdl ratio or lower is desired. Yours is at a 1:1 ratio which is absolutely beautiful!

 

[Lynn D]

2 minutes ago, Bob said:

Are these the before carnivore results or the after-some-time on carnivore results?

Hi Bob. Thank you for the response. This testing was done BEFORE we started carnivore.

Although I was eating animal fat in the form of butter, cream and cheese, my Keto diet was plant-based, probably fairly low in protein. Also mostly OMAD, huge bowls of spinach salad with nuts for that one meal, and animal protein like eggs or meat almost as a condiment.

That's why the kidney numbers worried me ; and LDL and total cholesterol - before even starting Carnivore!

[Bob]

12 minutes ago, Lynn D said:

and LDL and total cholesterol - before even starting Carnivore!

I wouldn't worry about this especially if you are eating a proper human diet and all your other markers are normal. My total cholesterol was as high as 588 at one point. If I recall, Dr. Berry's is in the high 200's and Dr. Kiltz was in the 300's. Have you watched any of Dave Feldman or Nick Norwitz videos on cholesterol and lean mass hyper-responders?  

17 minutes ago, Lynn D said:

That's why the kidney numbers worried me

By comparison, my BUN has been in the 50's 60's and 70's for the last 4 years. But I do have CKD, and it did go up on carnivore. But there are other markers I have had tested to confirm that I am not doing any damage.

What was your creatinine on these same results?

[Lynn D]

Hi Bob.

Creatinine was 0.73  (reference range 0.57 to 1.00) so that seems fine.

BUN of 25, ref. range 6 to 24;  so it's "high" but not disastrously so.

BUN/Creatinine Ratio of 34 is quite elevated (ref. range 9 to 23). My Dad's disease came with glomerulonephritis, and his Ratio was always high.

We are only ten days into Carnivore WOE, and we plan to re-test every three months. In the meantime I'll try to contain my anxiety about the kidney and lipid panel results and concentrate on eating the Proper Human Diet.

LynnD 

[Geezy]

Be aware Lynn that it can take a year or longer for your blood markers to stabilize on the carnivore WOE. As your body is transitioning to a meat based diet things can get a little wacky but it’s all good. Your present numbers look fine to me.
Also remember this, the numbers that doctor’s use to determine high or low are just an average comparison of people across a percentage of the population. These people are all people who are eating the SAD so in reality, there is no baseline to judge you by.
Your numbers need to be compared to other people who eat the same way you do.


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[Bob]

18 hours ago, Lynn D said:

Creatinine was 0.73  (reference range 0.57 to 1.00) so that seems fine.

That's beautiful. The creatinine is being cleared by your kidneys and not accumulating in your blood. This is what we want to see... in general. A carnivore diet or lifting weights will increase creatinine production, so you may see a little accumulation on your next labs.

18 hours ago, Lynn D said:

BUN of 25, ref. range 6 to 24;  so it's "high" but not disastrously so.

This is also expected. You will produce more urea nitrogen from a high protein diet.

18 hours ago, Lynn D said:

BUN/Creatinine Ratio of 34 is quite elevated (ref. range 9 to 23)

The ratio is a simple math formula -> 25 BUN divided by .73 creatinine = 34

18 hours ago, Lynn D said:

I'll try to contain my anxiety about the kidney and lipid panel results and concentrate on eating the Proper Human Diet.

Good plan. Your creatinine and BUN may go up due to protein consumption and exercise, but there are other ways to check kidney function should your anxiety get the best of you. And then remember that scientific research in the low carb and keto space has a differing opinion (backed by research) on cholesterol and LDL than the mainstream.

[Quinton]

On 2/2/2024 at 2:13 PM, Lynn D said:

Hi Bob.

Creatinine was 0.73  (reference range 0.57 to 1.00) so that seems fine.

BUN of 25, ref. range 6 to 24;  so it's "high" but not disastrously so.

BUN/Creatinine Ratio of 34 is quite elevated (ref. range 9 to 23). My Dad's disease came with glomerulonephritis, and his Ratio was always high.

We are only ten days into Carnivore WOE, and we plan to re-test every three months. In the meantime I'll try to contain my anxiety about the kidney and lipid panel results and concentrate on eating the Proper Human Diet.

LynnD 

Your kidneys are perfect. Your kidney function is based on your creatinine value which is 0.73 which is perfect. BUN means very little. For peace of mind watch this from 4:00 mark:

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Also, your lipid panel is amazing as well. Your HDL is greater than your trigs which is what you want. I understand your concern, but there are people with labs like 10x worse who are still trucking along just fine. Everything looks really good.

[Lynn D]

15 hours ago, Quinton said:

Your kidneys are perfect.

Thank you, Quinton.  

[Calendyr]

On 2/2/2024 at 4:13 PM, Lynn D said:

Hi Bob.

Creatinine was 0.73  (reference range 0.57 to 1.00) so that seems fine.

BUN of 25, ref. range 6 to 24;  so it's "high" but not disastrously so.

BUN/Creatinine Ratio of 34 is quite elevated (ref. range 9 to 23). My Dad's disease came with glomerulonephritis, and his Ratio was always high.

We are only ten days into Carnivore WOE, and we plan to re-test every three months. In the meantime I'll try to contain my anxiety about the kidney and lipid panel results and concentrate on eating the Proper Human Diet.

LynnD 

I would not worry too much about the reference range.  This range is calculated by a compliation of the results of the tests they are doing in your area.  So if a lot of people have high trigliceride, that would be considered normal... so in other words, it's pretty useless considering most of the population eats poorly so knowing what their average results is pretty much meaningless when it comes to knowing if you are health.

[Geezy]

I would not worry too much about the reference range.  This range is calculated by a compliation of the results of the tests they are doing in your area.  So if a lot of people have high trigliceride, that would be considered normal... so in other words, it's pretty useless considering most of the population eats poorly so knowing what their average results is pretty much meaningless when it comes to knowing if you are health.

Very true and that average is from people who eat a SAD therefore it cannot be used as a metric to evaluate a carnivore.


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