Starting Ketovore

[Calendyr]

Hello everyone.

I am 54 and have been diagnosed with Diabetes Type 2 in 2018.

When I got diagnosed, I refused the treatment they suggested (2 pills and eating mostly carbohydrates).  Instead I did a Keto Diet and 6 months later all my bloodwork came out normal.   After those 6 months, I slacked off Keto because I was tired of always being either constipated or having diareah.  

Fast forward to 2024 and I am almost eating a standard american diet.  Funny how things go when you stop paying attention.  I was trying to stay away from bread, rice, potatoes and so on as much as possible but I was eating pasta often and a lot of deserts.   

So this year I decided to go back on a strict diet.  My current weight is 213 lb.  I have been on Ketovore for 2 weeks now.  My diet consist of: Rib eye steak, ground beef, eggs, bacon, saussage, a bit of chedar, brie cheeze, almonds, peanuts.  I intend to eat salmon steaks and cod as well but have not purchased any so far.   I used to drink mostly caffeine free diet pepsi.  I have switched to sping water with a dash of artificail sugar flavors.  Most days I eat OMAD.  Sometimes I also add a snack with peanuts or almonds.  I have also started going back to the gym because I am out of shape. 

 

Also I am supplementing magnesium, calcium, zinc, vitamins A, B, C, and D.  Those are what diabetics are usually deficient in.

 

So in the last 2 weeks, I have been eating a very strict diet.  My meal is 1 lb of meat on average.   I have lost no weight at all, I am still 213 lb like I was 2 weeks ago.  I don't understand why the weight is not coming off while I am doing intermitent fasting for 23 hours a day and am eating very little.   If you have any ideas or insights I am very curious how to resolve this issue.  My goal is to drop to 175 lb in the short time and then over time get down to 150 lb.  

 

Daniel from Montreal

Edited February 12 by Calendyr

[Bob]

Welcome aboard Daniel

13 hours ago, Calendyr said:

So in the last 2 weeks, I have been eating a very strict diet.  My meal is 1 lb of meat on average.   I have lost no weight at all, I am still 213 lb like I was 2 weeks ago.  I don't understand why the weight is not coming off while I am doing intermittent fasting for 23 hours a day and am eating very little.   If you have any ideas or insights I am very curious how to resolve this issue.  

This will be brief because I am running late for work this morning. But a couple of suggestions would be drop the almonds (which is an actual seed/nut) and the peanuts (which are actually legumes). Those do have carbohydrates and they are also energy dense, and easy to munch on and not pay attention to how much you are eating. Often the weight we lose at first is water weight due to the lack of carbohydrates, which hasn't happened for you yet which is why I target the almonds and the peanuts.

Also, how tall are you? Eating just 1 lb of meat sounds like undereating (but I am not taking into account the cheese and the nuts), and your body will respond to undereating by adjusting it's metabolism if it thinks there is a famine or lack of food. It's a survival mechanism to conserve energy/resources and hold on to what you got.

Have a great day!

[Geezy]

Welcome Calendyr, Bob is of course spot on with his assessment.
If you want to be strict carnivore you need to eat only animal fats, animal protein, salt and water.
If you want to be truly metabolically healthy you need to eliminate all seeds, seed oils, sugars and that includes non sugar sweeteners, grains and vegetable matter.
I include non sugar sweeteners because they are still a processed food that can and will affect your body and health.

In 2014, Israeli scientists made headlines when they linked artificial sweeteners to changes in gut bacteria.

Mice, when fed artificial sweeteners for 11 weeks, had negative changes in their gut bacteria that caused increased blood sugar levels.

When they implanted the bacteria from these mice into germ-free mice, they also had increases in blood sugar levels.

Interestingly, the scientists were able to reverse the increase in blood sugar levels by changing the gut bacteria back to normal.

However, these results haven’t been tested or replicated in humans.
Lastly, give it time. You are way early into this eating lifestyle. I’ve known of many people who start out having trouble losing weight. Some have even taken months because it just took time for them to become fat adapted. Look up Kelly Hogan. Tremendous testimony from her and just look at what she has accomplished just by hanging in there.
Everyone is different and their metabolism reacts differently so don’t judge yourself against what has worked for others. Also, try to remember that this is not a weight loss diet, it’s first and foremost a healing lifestyle. Losing weight is just a side benefit.
Good luck on your journey.


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[Calendyr]

13 hours ago, Bob said:

Welcome aboard Daniel

This will be brief because I am running late for work this morning. But a couple of suggestions would be drop the almonds (which is an actual seed/nut) and the peanuts (which are actually legumes). Those do have carbohydrates and they are also energy dense, and easy to munch on and not pay attention to how much you are eating. Often the weight we lose at first is water weight due to the lack of carbohydrates, which hasn't happened for you yet which is why I target the almonds and the peanuts.

Also, how tall are you? Eating just 1 lb of meat sounds like undereating (but I am not taking into account the cheese and the nuts), and your body will respond to undereating by adjusting it's metabolism if it thinks there is a famine or lack of food. It's a survival mechanism to conserve energy/resources and hold on to what you got.

Have a great day!

Hello there,

I eat about a quarter cup of nuts each day.  My jar of peanuts and almonds have a lid and I fill the lid and eat that.  Never weighted it but it's really not that much.  I eat those because they are great for people who are diabetic.  When I am done with those two jars I could cut them out and see what happens.

 

I am 5'11".  I am never hungry or just about.  When times come for my meal, sometimes I am starting to get a little hungry but it's very weak.   

When I am done with my meal, I am stuffed.  So maybe I should quit the OMAD thing and go to 2 or 3 complete meals.  I read that I should aim to eat 1 gram of protein for each pound of lean mass.  I am not sure how much mean mass I have but I estimated 150 Lb... and what I am eating now is close to 150 grams of protein per day,

 

Daniel

 

[Calendyr]

10 hours ago, Geezy said:

Welcome Calendyr, Bob is of course spot on with his assessment.
If you want to be strict carnivore you need to eat only animal fats, animal protein, salt and water.
If you want to be truly metabolically healthy you need to eliminate all seeds, seed oils, sugars and that includes non sugar sweeteners, grains and vegetable matter.
I include non sugar sweeteners because they are still a processed food that can and will affect your body and health.

In 2014, Israeli scientists made headlines when they linked artificial sweeteners to changes in gut bacteria.

Mice, when fed artificial sweeteners for 11 weeks, had negative changes in their gut bacteria that caused increased blood sugar levels.

When they implanted the bacteria from these mice into germ-free mice, they also had increases in blood sugar levels.

Interestingly, the scientists were able to reverse the increase in blood sugar levels by changing the gut bacteria back to normal.

However, these results haven’t been tested or replicated in humans.
Lastly, give it time. You are way early into this eating lifestyle. I’ve known of many people who start out having trouble losing weight. Some have even taken months because it just took time for them to become fat adapted. Look up Kelly Hogan. Tremendous testimony from her and just look at what she has accomplished just by hanging in there.
Everyone is different and their metabolism reacts differently so don’t judge yourself against what has worked for others. Also, try to remember that this is not a weight loss diet, it’s first and foremost a healing lifestyle. Losing weight is just a side benefit.
Good luck on your journey.
 

Yes, I intend to cut out artificial sweetener completelly.  I am just easing into it.  Nuts I added to the food plan after watching several videos explaining they contain a lot of things we need.  I am not again cutting them out and see what happens.  I am halfway through both of my jars so when they are empty, I can try to remove them to see the result.  Same goes for cheeze. 

I am just surprised that going from an almost american diet to very strict ketovore that I am seeing zero result.  People on full keto are seing a lot of fat loss and I am eating almost carnivore and am seing no improvement.  

 

Obviously, there are metabolic improvement of not eating sugars and eating very few carbs.  Peanuts contain like 3 grams of carbs in a normal serving so that is negligeable, same for almonds.  I can't wait to have my bloodwork done next month to see where I am at.  Unfortunately my request to my doctor to ad all the blood test Dr. Berry and Dr. Cywes recommend fell on deaf ears.  He told me that those were not tests he normaly do and sent me his normal form for the blood that that doesn't include insulin level, GGT test, fasting glucose level and so on.   I will very likely be seeking a new doctor if I can't convince him to track these things.

 

[Bob]

11 hours ago, Calendyr said:

So maybe I should quit the OMAD thing and go to 2 or 3 complete meals.  I read that I should aim to eat 1 gram of protein for each pound of lean mass.  I am not sure how much mean mass I have but I estimated 150 Lb... and what I am eating now is close to 150 grams of protein per day,

I know a lot of guys that do OMAD and seem to like it. I'm a twice a day eater myself, with sometimes a beef stick for a snack to hold me over until the wife gets home.

I've heard 1g of protein minimum per pound of goal body weight, which still works out to 150g based on your first post. That's 600 calories from protein. Then, you want to consume 1g of fat for every 1g of protein, so that's 150g minimum of fat. Fat should always be equal to or greater than protein, gram for gram. 150g of fat is 1350 calories. Together this is 1950 calories. Now I know we say don't count calories, but this is still a useful metric to determine if you are undereating or overeating. 

Take for example 1 pound of 80/20 ground beef without draining any of the fat. This would have 76g of protein, 92g of fat, and about 1132 calories. Of course, this doesn't take into account the nuts that you do eat. 

When I went from 225 to 175, I was 2MAD eating 4 eggs and 4 sausage patties for lunch at noon, and 1 pound of beef for dinner at 7pm, and then intermittently fasted until lunch again the next day, probably clocking in at around 1800-2200 calories per day.

[Bob]

12 hours ago, Calendyr said:

Yes, I intend to cut out artificial sweetener completelly.

Good luck. This is still a major crutch for me. I still sweeten my tea and drink diet sodas too. They say in some people even the taste of these artificial sweeteners can cause an insulin release and stall weight loss, but I don't seem to have that problem. 

12 hours ago, Calendyr said:

Unfortunately my request to my doctor to ad all the blood test Dr. Berry and Dr. Cywes recommend fell on deaf ears.  He told me that those were not tests he normaly do and sent me his normal form for the blood that that doesn't include insulin level, GGT test, fasting glucose level and so on.   I will very likely be seeking a new doctor if I can't convince him to track these things.

Check out www.ownyourlabs.com which is available in most states (a few states won't let you order your own bloodwork). It's usually even cheaper than my copays when the doc orders bloodwork. 

[Orweller]

Nuts are so damn high in calories... it's going to make losing weight an uphill battle. Nuts are a big no-no. Great for fat, great for protein, great for bulking. For weight-loss they need to be gone, end of. There is no pretty way to say this. Same goes for milk, stay away if you seek to lose weight. Also great for fat and protein, great for bulking. 

[Sherry]

On 2/12/2024 at 10:51 PM, Calendyr said:

 

I am just surprised that going from an almost american diet to very strict ketovore that I am seeing zero result.  People on full keto are seing a lot of fat loss and I am eating almost carnivore and am seing no improvement.  

 

 

 

Since you were diagnosed with diabetes, it might be the problem.  It could make you a slow loser.  I believe that's what happened to me.  I suddenly started gaining weight a few years ago and it didn't matter what I did, I just kept gaining weight.  Anyway, I got on keto and then eventually carnivore and the weight started to very slowly come off.  I would stick with carnivore and eliminate the nuts and see what happens.  But give it time.  You may have to make this a permanent way of eating to become healthy.

[Calendyr]

Ya, I think eventually I will go full carnivore.  I wanted to ease into it to try to lower the chances of keto flu.   When I did a keto diet a few years back, it was terrible.  Never had normal bowel movements for the 6 months I was on the diet.  It was always alternating between diarea and constipation.   Having the same problem now, but not as bad.  Don't have a lot of bowel movements, maybe once a week.  Often it's diarea.  I don't have constipations or cramps so that is a huge improvement from my previous experience.  

I don't hate eating like this.  Steak is really good.  Not a huge fan of the ground beef.  I try to add spices like curcumin, garlic powder, salt and black pepper to make it more tolerable.  Really need to add fish for the omega 3 but I have not done so yet.  I plan to eat salmon and cod.  I am on the last steak I purchased last time I went meat shopping so I might drop to the fish store and grab a few salmon steaks when I go see my butcher for more rib eye steaks

 

I know nuts are calorie dense, but I also eat only a small amount of them.  If I did not eat them as a second meal/snack, I am sure that more meat would be more total calories.  Just trying to figure out that metabolic rate thing.   This week I will be taking a break and added some non-keto food.  If I don't do this I will just get discouraged.  I don't make making any kind of efforts to reach a goal but the lack of any progress is something I can't deal with.   I am a very goal oriented person and when I don't see any reward for my efforts, it feels like a total waste of time to me and I want to avoid this at all cost because I know that a no-carbs diet is the way to go.

 

[Bob]

11 hours ago, Calendyr said:

This week I will be taking a break and added some non-keto food.  If I don't do this I will just get discouraged.

I will occasionally have a salad, or an apple, or a side veggie. I try to make sure it is still food that nature provides, and not manufactured stuff that man makes. I still will avoid sugars and grains, and in general - seed oils, although if I have a salad at a restaurant I know the dressing is going to be seed oil based. I don't worry too much about it since I am avidly avoiding it at all other times.

Remember a proper human diet is a spectrum, meat-based, and includes carnivore on one end of the spectrum, keto in the middle, and animal-based on the other.

Being diabetic, I would definitely recommend sticking to the ketogenic and carnivore side of things to get that A1C down.

 

[Calendyr]

I am very curious to see what my A1C is that.  Despite eating poorly last year, I never felt the diabetic signals (always thirsty, always hungry).   I was hungry very rarelly despite only eating 2 meals a day.  My guess is that my A1C wasn't that bad.   Will know on April first when I see my family doctor.