Question on experience with high intensity weightlifting and preloading carbs (Honey) before workout

[vincentcarnivore]

Hey guys, new to the forum, I decided to join because I don't have many people around me who eat a primarily meat-based diet.  I eat steak and 6 eggs every day, but I would not say I am PURE carnivore as I partake in coffee, some spices, etc.  

I do high intensity weightlifting and I want to maximize my performance, any of you guys out their experiment with preloading honey or carbs before a high intensity workout to maximize the performance?  There is no denying carbs are a good fuel source, and the release of insulin is anabolic, I quote "Considering that it promotes nutrient storage and helps prevent cell breakdown, insulin is considered an anabolic hormone. This lends it well to bodybuilding, in which the central purpose is to build up muscle mass through strategic diet and exercise."

I am not promoting the use of carbs outside of an immediate fuel source in a high intensity setting, but could you not quickly go back into ketosis and have the benefit of the fuel source for the workout?  Thoughts?

Edited March 8 by vincentcarnivore

[Bob]

12 hours ago, vincentcarnivore said:

I am not promoting the use of carbs outside of an immediate fuel source in a high intensity setting, but could you not quickly go back into ketosis and have the benefit of the fuel source for the workout?  Thoughts?

In theory, yes. When you reintroduce carbs then your body will immediately turn to burning that off and getting rid of it. Same with alcohol. Have a few shots of whiskey and your out of ketosis, but then a few hours later you are back in ketosis. How soon you would get back into ketosis after carb loading with honey would depend on how much honey you had, how soon and how fast it got processed and made available to you, and how intense you worked out.

I honestly have not read that much into honey. One thought that comes to mind is that with refined sugar, you experience a rush followed by a crash. I don't know if honey will have the same effect. For some, just having that sweet taste of sugar in the mouth and body again puts them in a state of hyper-craving carbs again for the next day or so, and many of them give in and then backslide on their diet. So there is some caution to be had if you are one of those types of individuals.

And then there is how a fat-adapted carnivore or keto dieter enjoys a steady stream of energy. So the honey loading could be unnecessary if you are fat adapted. People like Shawn Baker and Anthoney Chaffee will load up on animal protein for their workouts, because even eating meat causes a rise in insulin. On the other hand, people like Paul Saladino advocate fruit and honey and work out intensely as well. 

When you are overweight, metabolically unhealthy, and have chronic conditions you want to be rid of, carbs and insulin are the devil. But if you are fit and healthy, you have more freedom to experiment with other natural food sources.

[vincentcarnivore]

I agree with that logic, I can literally benefit from carb loading, and it would give you quick access to a potent energy source for high intensity workouts, but as you said if you are metabolically healthy and truly fat adaptative, you don't need it.  I think from an evolutionary sense, we did not have access to carbs to go hunt and to high intensity "work outs", we were probably primarily always in a state of ketosis.  

That being said, I think as you said if you are in a healthy state, it probably gives your freedom to play with different mechanisms and variables. 

Edited March 8 by vincentcarnivore

[Bob]

4 hours ago, vincentcarnivore said:

I think from an evolutionary sense, we did not have access to carbs to go hunt and to high intensity "work outs", we were probably primarily always in a state of ketosis.

Honey and fruit was seasonal, so it was a rare treat. Not like today where it's "harvest season" year round at the local grocery.

[vincentcarnivore]

I agree completely, I have made this point before, we did not evolve in an industrialized agricultural society, we would never have access to such abundance of carbohydrates.  

[Orweller]

I do lift and I've never did pre workout, carb loading, or anything. A cup of coffee and then I go bang weights. I've lost a little strength overall, but I lost weight as well. It feels better though, less hurt, good recovery. I lift for function though, lifting itself is for performance, not a performance of itself. 

[toucansam]

After eight months of *strict* carnivore, the one disadvantage I simply could not abide was my performance in the weight room had declined almost 300%.  I take care of nearly all of my mental health in the gym, and the loss of strength was simply intolerable.  

 

I added small amounts of carbs of various types and experimented with timing.

 

My performance *immediately* began to recover.  Although I also became more "puffy" as the glycogen began to refill my muscle tissue.  I still maintained overall low carb intake, although it was enough to kick me out of ketosis permanently.  "Carb cycling" had no effect; I couldn't go in and out of ketosis at will and still maintain performance in the gym.  Maybe I was doing it wrong.  I was probably doing it wrong.  

 

I found that I could do 10+ mile rucks with 60lbs, after a 24 hour fast, on carnivore.  Sustained energy for days.  

 

Explosive energy and pure strength took a major hit, and only the re-introduction of carbs brought that back.

 

[Bob]

11 hours ago, toucansam said:

I found that I could do 10+ mile rucks with 60lbs, after a 24 hour fast, on carnivore.  Sustained energy for days.  

Rucking is something I want to get into this summer

[Miranda]

 I see that Dr Sean O'Mara is having success working out in fasted state.

Dave Mack of "nocarb" YouTube 

interview with 

Anthony Phaesse 

Is a great resource.

[Orweller]

20 hours ago, toucansam said:

After eight months of *strict* carnivore, the one disadvantage I simply could not abide was my performance in the weight room had declined almost 300%.  I take care of nearly all of my mental health in the gym, and the loss of strength was simply intolerable.  

 

I added small amounts of carbs of various types and experimented with timing.

 

My performance *immediately* began to recover.  Although I also became more "puffy" as the glycogen began to refill my muscle tissue.  I still maintained overall low carb intake, although it was enough to kick me out of ketosis permanently.  "Carb cycling" had no effect; I couldn't go in and out of ketosis at will and still maintain performance in the gym.  Maybe I was doing it wrong.  I was probably doing it wrong.  

 

I found that I could do 10+ mile rucks with 60lbs, after a 24 hour fast, on carnivore.  Sustained energy for days.  

 

Explosive energy and pure strength took a major hit, and only the re-introduction of carbs brought that back.

 

I'd say my strength took a 30% hit, that and recovery. I do have some carbs per day, about 40gr or so from several sources, more consequences than actual deliberate intake. I am also leaner so it is logical that I lost a bit of strength. Mass moves mass. I lost about 8% of my former body weight. I do see plenty of muscle definition, not actual loss of muscle mass. Less bloated, less pump also. When it comes to endurance, I feel much more equipped now. If that makes sense. No beach muscle but purely functional, I'd say. 

Either or, our bodies are unique machines, for some carnivore works, others need to adapt, and other may even have to go Adkins or low carb. It is what it is. I doubt if you were doing it wrong. 

[Orweller]

8 hours ago, Bob said:

Rucking is something I want to get into this summer

I need to get back at it.