why triglycerides high on carnivore?

susu · Friday at 03:29 PM

Hi I've been doing carnivore almost 6 month and got worse triglycerides,,

I'm 36F, 5'4. Before carnivore, I was doing keto (barely no meat, keto bread/keto dessert/daily/nuts/avocado/olive oil and vegetable based) and Triglyceride was perfect like around 50-60, HDL 80, ldl 180

After carnivore, fatty beef/lamb 1lb, butter and sometimes salmon or sardine (my macro 70/30, fat 130g protein 100-110g). After 4 month, I gained 10lb even I was normal weight but now little got fatty, Triglyceride sky high 165, HDL decreased to 70 and ldl 400 (15hr fasted)

I heard coffee can affect on triglyceride so ditched coffee and butter (I thought I'm eating too much fat) and worse blood work month after.. HDL dropped to 60, Triglycerides 210 and LDL 500..

So I saw keto doctor, he said I might eating too much protein, which could be cause, so I switched to 80/20 macro (fat 150g/protein 70-80g). No weightloss, waiting another blood work in a month.

I'm really concerned about the increasing triglyceride/dropping HDL even though I'm not eating any carb. FYI, my fasting glucose is 74, Hba1c 5.1, hscrp 0.5 and no insulin resistance.

Don't really know what am i doing wrong. Any comment would be appreciated. Thanks

Geezy · Friday at 07:00 PM

Welcome Susie. I’m glad you could join us.

Triglycerides going up after starting carnivore while rare could be caused by several things.

Loss of triglyceride clearance pathways when carbs are restricted

Low fiber intake failing to lower triglyceride absorption

Too high of intake of saturated fat

Weight loss releasing triglycerides from fat cells

Underlying conditions like genetics, hypothyroidism, or fatty liver

A triglyceride level below 150 mg/dL is considered ideal. Levels between 150-199 mg/dL are borderline high. Having levels between 200-499 mg/dL is considered elevated and higher than 500 mg/dL is very concerning.

Some things that you might consider trying is increasing your omega 3 intake Eating more high omega-3 foods like fatty fish, fish roe, oysters, and beef liver can help combat high triglycerides. Omega-3 fats help improve triglycerides,

Reducing your intake of saturated fats. Limiting intake of high saturated fat animal foods like pork, lamb, beef ribeye, cheese, and butter may help lower triglyceride levels. I know you’ve already tried this but maybe look at what kind of fats you are eating. Mostly ruminant fat or pork?

Try more monounsaturated fats.
Focusing on fattier cuts of meat that are high in monounsaturated fat like beef tenderloin, chicken thighs, and salmon can help improve triglycerides.

As much as it pains me to say this, maybe add some fiber back in.
Although fiber is limited on carnivore, options like chia seeds and avocado can help bind to triglycerides and reduce their absorption.

Exercise regularly. Engaging in aerobic exercise and strength training most days of the week can help lower triglyceride levels over time.

Losing weight if overweight.
Excess weight is tied to high triglycerides. Losing weight through the carnivore diet can lower triglyceride levels.

Manage any underlying conditions you may have.
Getting conditions like hypothyroidism, diabetes, and fatty liver under control can all help lower excessive triglycerides. If you don’t have any of those you might aught to get checked out to make sure.

Lowering your protein intake.
Overeating protein can raise triglycerides in some people. Try reducing protein portions if levels remain very elevated.

Consider taking a supplement.
Like fish oil, berberine, curcumin, and vitamin E may help support healthy triglyceride levels.

I hope some of this helps.

susu · Friday at 07:10 PM

Hi Geezy Thanks for the reply! I already added omega 3 fish oil and no thyroid issue, Also lowered much protein from 100 to 70.. (not sure how it helps though). I've been working out 3 days a week, but seemingly not working that well,, I thought carnivore is mainly saturated fat, so do I have to go down for this..?

Seemingly most of people have success on the carnivore even no fiber.. I'm feel like a carnivore failure lol

Geezy · Friday at 09:29 PM

2 hours ago, susu said:

Hi Geezy Thanks for the reply! I already added omega 3 fish oil and no thyroid issue, Also lowered much protein from 100 to 70.. (not sure how it helps though). I've been working out 3 days a week, but seemingly not working that well,, I thought carnivore is mainly saturated fat, so do I have to go down for this..?

Seemingly most of people have success on the carnivore even no fiber.. I'm feel like a carnivore failure lol

Audi, do not feel like you are a failure. You are an individual just like we all are and as such you cannot compare yourself to anyone else in this lifestyle. Because we all have different physiology’s this WOE affects us each differently. You have to find your own path. What works for one may not work for another. We see this all of the time. I’m sorry but there just isn’t a cookie cutter approach to this.

How does the rest of your blood work look?

I think Bob has some knowledge on triglycerides and hopefully he’ll be along soon to give you some input.

Bob · Saturday at 02:22 PM

22 hours ago, susu said:

I'm really concerned about the increasing triglyceride/dropping HDL even though I'm not eating any carb.

Are you actively losing weight currently?

Body fat is stored triglyceride. As you lose weight, this dissolves and enters into the bloodstream to be used as energy.

How long were you water-only fasted before your blood draw?

You want to fast for at least 12-14 hours. It is also ideal NOT to test first thing in the morning or within the first few hours of waking up, as there will be triglyceride carryover from the meal the night before.

Other recommendations are to eliminate coffee, which you have. Double-check everything for potential carb creep, which it sounds like you are. And to cut out refined/liquid/concentrated forms of fat. Drop bulletproof coffee, oils, fat shakes, fat bombs, etc. Move toward as much fat from real food sources as possible.

Triglycerides are energy, so in general we can look at it as an energy surplus. The question then is where is the surplus coming from? If it's from dissolving body fat, well this isn't a bad thing. As you thin out and become weight stable, the trig levels should return to baseline. If it's from your liver manufacturing them, then it's from carbohydrates, high protein, or possibly even overeating.

And then in super rare circumstances, there is an underlying medical condition. For example, I have Chronic Kidney Disease, which I detail in these videos...

High Tryglcyerides on a Carnivore Diet

Chronic Kidney Disease and the Carnivore Diet

susu · Saturday at 02:25 PM

Hi thanks Bob, I was always fasted like at least 14 hours and no carb at all except eggs. And no coffee too. Didn’t lose weight, rather gained (not muscle). Tried also no butter but worse triglycerides.. felt like really lost at this moment lol. I really want to keep this woe, but don’t know what to do

Bob · Saturday at 02:57 PM

18 minutes ago, susu said:

Didn’t lose weight, rather gained

Ah, I missed that in your first post where you said...

23 hours ago, susu said:

I was normal weight but now little got fatty

Gaining weight isn't necessarily a bad thing. This could be from an improvement in hormonal balance and/or healing taking place.

Do you track your calories and macros in a notebook or app like CarbManager? That data could help rule out eating too much in general, too much protein, eating right before bed, potential carb creep, eating too frequently or grazing/snacking throughout the day, etc. Are you consuming too much dairy? Are you relying too much on processed meats or convenience foods? Are you getting too much linoleic acid from commercial eggs, conventional chicken, and grain fed pork?

It sounds like you're on top of it, but it's more useful to actually keep a log.

Do you get adequate quality sleep?

Are you on any medications?

Are you a stress magnet?

Have you been checked for auto-immune conditions?

I understand the frustration. But there is a root cause. It's just a matter of finding it.

susu · Saturday at 03:03 PM

Yeap, I’ve been documenting the food log so far. I don’t think calories is too high, highest 1700kcal (70-80g of protein and 140-150g of fat). That’s 250-300g of fresh cut of beef and lamb (no chicken/no pork) My last meal is usually before 5pm and no dairy except eggs and butter. Not on medication and no autoimmune disease.. hscrp low 0.5 and normal cortisol.. really no idea what else i can do..

Bob · Saturday at 03:22 PM

That's an 82:18 fat protein ratio. Impressive. I have a hard time getting that much fat. The general recommendation is to aim for 70:30 fat to protein.

What is your target/ideal weight? As a general rule of thumb, you want to aim for 1g of protein per pound (U.S.A. measurements) of ideal body weight, and likewise 1g of fat per pound of ideal body weight (1g:1g fat to protein is the basic equivalent of 70:30 fat to protein in terms of calories).

For example, I want to weigh 160 lbs. 160g of protein and 160g of fat in calories equals 1440-fat:640-protein which is a 69:31 (basically 70:30) ratio.

Let us know your results after your next blood draw. If your trigs continue to go up, the added fat obviously didn't help. You can then test another adjustment in your macros by lowering your fat and increasing your protein. Then after the next blood draw, compare.

19 minutes ago, susu said:

no autoimmune disease

Have you been tested for renal function, liver function, and thyroid function? How about sex hormone levels?

susu · Saturday at 03:52 PM

I was doing 1:1 that’s basically 70/30 (120g fat 120g protein) for 4 month. Before carnivore I was 118lb now 125lb (body fat 26% to 33%, not a good way) and my trig worse. So I saw functional medicine, he said go down protein which can cause weight gain and high triglycerides and that’s why I increased fat like butter. I checked lipid at home today, triglycerides is 240. My liver/kidney function is normal and normal hormone test result. If I have to go down the fat, then daily calorie drop like 1000kcal which is too low. Not sure adaption period is this long.

Bob · Saturday at 04:27 PM

14 minutes ago, susu said:

If I have to go down the fat, then daily calorie drop like 1000kcal which is too low.

Do you wanna go back to 118? Intermittent fasting, extended fasting, and calorie/fat reduction would accomplish that.

What your functional medicine doctor said is just one of many possibilities. I was told the same thing by a two popular carnivore doctors. I upped my fat intake and my trigs continued to skyrocket.

You either manufacture your own trigs, or you consume them with your meal. The fat you eat contains triglycerides. Triglycerides are used for energy. High triglycerides are a surplus of energy for one reason or another, either (1) over consumption, (2) over production, or (3) not utilizing them, or (4) have a disease such as kidney, liver, or thyroid, or (5) have a lipid disorder prohibiting them from being metabolized or broken down.

You can be tested for thyroid, liver, kidney issues, and hypertriglyceridemia. Other conditions such as type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome should heal over time with a proper diet. Things you can control include lower consumption and increase exercise. Omega-3's are shown to be beneficial, so maybe swap out some of that beef and lamb for some fatty fish a couple times a week or so.

susu · Saturday at 04:34 PM

Basically yeah i want to go back 118-120lb. I’ve already been doing 16:8 intermittent fasting with 3 times a week workout but no difference lol. When i was doing keto 1 year before carnivore my fat intake was like close to 200g but mainly not that healthy fat (avocado/nuts/goat yogurt and cheese mainly, meat might be once a week. My trig was 40 at that moment). I was also thinking reintroducing veggies but trying not to because of bloating. So I have no other options to go back any other diet..

Bob · Saturday at 05:05 PM

25 minutes ago, susu said:

When i was doing keto 1 year before carnivore my fat intake was like close to 200g

Which is more than you are consuming now. Interesting.

26 minutes ago, susu said:

but mainly not that healthy fat (avocado/nuts/goat yogurt and cheese mainly)

Those are healthy fats.

27 minutes ago, susu said:

meat might be once a week

Which lends some credence to the high protein theory. I can see why the functional medicine doctor suggested it.

Since obviously weight loss wasn't your "why" for starting carnivore, what was?

susu · Saturday at 05:12 PM

I started carnivore since pcos. Realized plant toxin, dairy could be inflammatory and nuts can be anti nutrients. So only option was meat, butter and egg,..

Bob · Saturday at 05:31 PM

16 minutes ago, susu said:

I started carnivore since pcos

That's the rabbit hole you might need to dive into...

https://www.bing.com/search?q=pcos+high+triglycerides

https://www.google.com/search?q=pcos+high+triglycerides

susu · Saturday at 05:32 PM

Thanks! I’ll take a look. Question for me is should i keep doing this woe, expecting tg would be improved in the end haha

Bob · Saturday at 06:20 PM

30 minutes ago, susu said:

Thanks! I’ll take a look. Question for me is should i keep doing this woe, expecting tg would be improved in the end haha

If it was me, I would keep it up, and keep monitoring, and trying little tweaks here and there (like adding fatty fish for the Omega-3's etc). Your HDL and Trig levels are not yet totally awful, although I understand the cause for concern. Most people see trigs drop, and then we often here about the Trig:HDL ratio being ideal at 2:1 or better for a lower risk of cardiac disease. Imagine how I feel sometimes when mine hover around 700 and spiked to 3000 at one point. I'm still ticking though

Keto is known to help improve PCOS. Over time you become more insulin sensitive, your hormones may balance out, and more. Maria Emmerich, a keto-carnivore advocate, used to have PCOS, but now it's cured. I believe I've heard the same about Kelly Hogan, who initially gained weight her first year of carnivore before she started to lose weight. She stuck to it because she knew she was healing and was experiencing benefits.

At the same time, a clean keto/vore or animal-based diet are still proper human diets. You could try reintroducing a vegetable or fruit one at a time every other week or so to see if it causes bloating or other reactions, and likewise test to see how it impacts your lipid markers.