I have made note of carnivore, fasting and trying to hit protein targets. I have altered the fat content and found pretty much where I need to be.

I have also noted I am amazed by the amounts of food other people can eat in one setting. Once I get past a 3/4"-1" rib eye, I'm full and sometimes can manage to eat the other half of my wife's steak, but that can be a stretch. I have tried to hit protein targets as I am getting more and more into lifting at the gym.

The past few weeks I have been on a stretch of overtime. I am averaging just a tad over 66 hours per week. I have been using some of the time on nights to pursue my Google degree in Carnivore and my YouTube College of Medicine Certificate with a lot of the metabolic things that come along with the carnivore diet, fasting and lifting weights (with an autoimmune disease tossed in as well). I'm not close to graduating from either Google nor Youtube, but I am working on those degrees.

I read a ton on the sugar diet (not that I am interested but more so to read about the effects of sugar). I have read a ton on glucose, glycogen, the liver and the pancreas as well as insulin resistance and insulin sensitivity. Instead of watching other people give their (mostly biased) opinions on studies and medical papers I decided to read theirs and then conduct my own experiments on myself. (Maybe inspired by Nick Norwitz, ??)

My first conclusion is that after going without sugar for 13-14 months the least little bit of sugar triggers hunger signals like I have not had in forever. As noted, I am trying to hit protein targets, and I simply can't eat that amount of meat to get to 200 grams of protein. For weight loss and using fat for energy this is a good thing. For weight/muscle gain I don't think I am fueling up as well as I need. I had some ideas and tried to kill two birds with one stone. I bought some of the pre-mixed protein drinks. I tried one, and then waited a week to try another, and then another after the third week. This container has 2.5 servings per bottle and I drank half of it and then 12 hours later the other half.

Rockin' Protein - Shamrock Farms

It has 20grams of carbohydrates and 11 grams of sugar so I'm getting them at 10 and 6 per serving.

Within an hour of each serving I am as hungry as all get out. It does not feel like an old sugar craving as I didn't really have any of those going to carnivore. But I can remember always feeling a little bit hungry. 5-6-7 20oz Mountain Dews and multiple snack cakes thru the day was providing me with the sugar to make my brain say, "I'm hungry again". I am guessing (hypothesizing if this were truly scientific) that by being off sugar/carbs for so long it only takes a very small amount to take me back to "hungry" all over again. (I have found a similar issues with seed oils. I ate them by the buckets before Carnivore and now the least little bit sends me running to the bathroom).

The sugar and the carbs have been a tradeoff for appetite and getting in extra protein. My weight fluctuates/swings normally and that has continued. Maybe up a pound or two more but swings back down to where I am averaging around 215. (still 90lbs off my start point on carnivore).

I could stand to lose some more weight, maybe 15-20lbs or so, but I am not as concerned with weight loss as of late. Super happy with the 90-95lbs in 14 months. Carnivore is still my way of eating, and as far as food is concerned it is still strict carnivore. Once a week or so I am indulging in a few carbs and a few sugars which triggers some hunger. I get the benefit of the extra protein from the drink but at the same time I can get in one more rib eye due to the hunger it provides. Probably not the best method to trigger hunger, but since I never had cravings, I don't see it being my 'gate-way' drug back to Mountain Dews and Little Debbie Snack cakes. LOL

The return? In the past month I can see a difference in my biceps and triceps. And although the aesthetics is not the goal, it is pretty cool to gain a little muscle at 55. The end goal is to gain muscle to offset the natural muscle loss from aging as well as the effects of the auto-immune disease I am trying to reverse with carnivore. The most impressive part so far is the plates I am adding in the gym. I am a lot stronger at 55 than 35. I am not 25 and just out of the service healthy but I am a lot closer to that than I was 14 months ago. And there has been some strides in the last month with "sugar dosing".

If I were struggling with weight still, I might not see this as a grand idea but since I am good with my weight right now, I don't see the harm of the occasional sugar spike. (This is similar to a four-year carnivore friend at the gym who eats sweet potatoes on Thursday nights before a big lift on Friday. Really similar concepts).

Again, not one of those double-blind studies with a thousand humans as control subjects, just me, and my approach to my own health. Maybe not the best plan, but it is my plan, and for now it is working rather well.

babbling on again.

Scott

19 minutes ago, Scott F. said:

I have made note of carnivore, fasting and trying to hit protein targets. I have altered the fat content and found pretty much where I need to be.

I have also noted I am amazed by the amounts of food other people can eat in one setting. Once I get past a 3/4"-1" rib eye, I'm full and sometimes can manage to eat the other half of my wife's steak, but that can be a stretch. I have tried to hit protein targets as I am getting more and more into lifting at the gym.

The past few weeks I have been on a stretch of overtime. I am averaging just a tad over 66 hours per week. I have been using some of the time on nights to pursue my Google degree in Carnivore and my YouTube College of Medicine Certificate with a lot of the metabolic things that come along with the carnivore diet, fasting and lifting weights (with an autoimmune disease tossed in as well). I'm not close to graduating from either Google nor Youtube, but I am working on those degrees.

I read a ton on the sugar diet (not that I am interested but more so to read about the effects of sugar). I have read a ton on glucose, glycogen, the liver and the pancreas as well as insulin resistance and insulin sensitivity. Instead of watching other people give their (mostly biased) opinions on studies and medical papers I decided to read theirs and then conduct my own experiments on myself. (Maybe inspired by Nick Norwitz, ??)

My first conclusion is that after going without sugar for 13-14 months the least little bit of sugar triggers hunger signals like I have not had in forever. As noted, I am trying to hit protein targets, and I simply can't eat that amount of meat to get to 200 grams of protein. For weight loss and using fat for energy this is a good thing. For weight/muscle gain I don't think I am fueling up as well as I need. I had some ideas and tried to kill two birds with one stone. I bought some of the pre-mixed protein drinks. I tried one, and then waited a week to try another, and then another after the third week. This container has 2.5 servings per bottle and I drank half of it and then 12 hours later the other half.

Rockin' Protein - Shamrock Farms

It has 20grams of carbohydrates and 11 grams of sugar so I'm getting them at 10 and 6 per serving.

Within an hour of each serving I am as hungry as all get out. It does not feel like an old sugar craving as I didn't really have any of those going to carnivore. But I can remember always feeling a little bit hungry. 5-6-7 20oz Mountain Dews and multiple snack cakes thru the day was providing me with the sugar to make my brain say, "I'm hungry again". I am guessing (hypothesizing if this were truly scientific) that by being off sugar/carbs for so long it only takes a very small amount to take me back to "hungry" all over again. (I have found a similar issues with seed oils. I ate them by the buckets before Carnivore and now the least little bit sends me running to the bathroom).

The sugar and the carbs have been a tradeoff for appetite and getting in extra protein. My weight fluctuates/swings normally and that has continued. Maybe up a pound or two more but swings back down to where I am averaging around 215. (still 90lbs off my start point on carnivore).

I could stand to lose some more weight, maybe 15-20lbs or so, but I am not as concerned with weight loss as of late. Super happy with the 90-95lbs in 14 months. Carnivore is still my way of eating, and as far as food is concerned it is still strict carnivore. Once a week or so I am indulging in a few carbs and a few sugars which triggers some hunger. I get the benefit of the extra protein from the drink but at the same time I can get in one more rib eye due to the hunger it provides. Probably not the best method to trigger hunger, but since I never had cravings, I don't see it being my 'gate-way' drug back to Mountain Dews and Little Debbie Snack cakes. LOL

The return? In the past month I can see a difference in my biceps and triceps. And although the aesthetics is not the goal, it is pretty cool to gain a little muscle at 55. The end goal is to gain muscle to offset the natural muscle loss from aging as well as the effects of the auto-immune disease I am trying to reverse with carnivore. The most impressive part so far is the plates I am adding in the gym. I am a lot stronger at 55 than 35. I am not 25 and just out of the service healthy but I am a lot closer to that than I was 14 months ago. And there has been some strides in the last month with "sugar dosing".

If I were struggling with weight still, I might not see this as a grand idea but since I am good with my weight right now, I don't see the harm of the occasional sugar spike. (This is similar to a four-year carnivore friend at the gym who eats sweet potatoes on Thursday nights before a big lift on Friday. Really similar concepts).

Again, not one of those double-blind studies with a thousand humans as control subjects, just me, and my approach to my own health. Maybe not the best plan, but it is my plan, and for now it is working rather well.

babbling on again.

Scott

I agree on the huge quantities that some claim to eat. I can't eat that much nor do I want to. I do fine with the smaller quantities that my wife and I both consume. We do not track anything and won't be starting either. Carnivore is simple, just eat animal products only and tracking is not required. It's those trips off of the carnivore trail that will catch up with you, quickly!

I agree. I don't think I am venturing too far off the reservation with a weekly dosing of carbs and sugars. I am also well aware I don't know what triggered my issues and I also am really weary of re-introducing plants/carbs and sugars. With my luck I will manage to re-introduce the very one that sent me down the auto immune path in the first place.

Another reason is I am now in conversations with the Neurologist about coming off six-month infusions. I was in a bad place and the infusions got me to a much better place. With carnivore I am in an even better place. Is the better place from Carnivore? the infusions still? the gym? or a combination of the three. I really do not know the answer, but I do know I am so much better now on the combination. I am not much on rocking the boat.

My bloodwork suggests I am no longer in immune despair. I am no longer on medicine for pain and inflammation. I'm more energetic than I have been in a lot of years.

I'm looking forward to our next conversation.

Scott

I've discontinued the Copaxone that I was on for my MS. I feel that it never did anything for me anyways. 2 years ago or so I thought I would give it a try and see what happens. Currently I have no real symptoms from the MS. Now if something does reappear in the future then of course I will think "oh, it must have been the copaxone that did that" OR maybe it's the carnivore finally kicking in after 4 years? With MS there is really no way to tell on an individual case basis. Things take so long to develop and so long to go away that changing something with your health care and seeing the results is extremely hard to track. I personally can't try anything harder as far as treatments due to my bladder cancer from 6 years ago. Most other treatments have increased risk of cancer and/or PML, and NO ONE wants PML!

11 hours ago, Scott F. said:

pursue my Google degree in Carnivore and my YouTube College of Medicine Certificate

🤣 that is a great explanation of what we do. I love it. 👍

11 hours ago, Scott F. said:

Again, not one of those double-blind studies with a thousand humans as control subjects, just me

And that is how it’s done. There has never been and will never be a true RCT of how we eat. And since we are all so individual we must be our own N of 1 experiment. You are doing exactly what you should be doing and that’s finding out what works best for you.

I’m personally scared of sugar. As an addict I feel that I must stay away from it. I don’t even want any sweet taste in my mouth, even from the artificial stuff. But that’s just me knowing me.

Kerry Mann has put out three different videos about the 5 stages of carnivore. When I saw the first one I realized that he had nailed exactly what I had experienced.

The 5 Stages of Carnivore

1. The decision

2. Adaptation

3. Healing

4. Ravenous

5. Maintenance

The ravenous stage was really something. After I had lost all of the weight it looked like I was going to loose and my body had healed I became enormously hungry. I recognized that my body no longer had the fat stores to sustain my energy levels and it was craving more fat and proteins. That’s why I can eat more than some people. I have found that if I don’t satisfy that hunger I’ll start losing weight so in the maintenance stage I have to make sure I eat enough. Never in my life that I’d be in a situation that I’d need to eat more to keep from losing weight.

Have I mentioned I love carnivore. 😋

Maybe I progressed a bit fast, just not sure. But I read something similar and now I wonder if I am in the ravenous stage and the sugar is like a "150 shot of nitrous' on a drag car. Sometimes it is hard to define one item when there are combinations in play.

The last month or so I have seen some solid games in the gym. A little muscle growth here and there but the strength gains are rather noticeable. I also wonder if the stress I'm adding is causing my body to call for more nutrients/food. Based on blood glucose I think I'm insulin sensitive now so I would imagine the least little bit of sugar (and it has been so long without) the body is reacting.

Again, learning and experimenting and don't really have a lot of answers. Maybe the only answer is that I feel pretty good every day, the energy levels are better than they were a year ago, I am much stronger (if that matters) and I sleep better/wake up better. I think being carnivore is the primary catalyst, but I also think other things factor in as well.

As with everything else, time will tell.

Scott

1 hour ago, Terry said:

I've discontinued the Copaxone that I was on for my MS. I feel that it never did anything for me anyways. 2 years ago or so I thought I would give it a try and see what happens. Currently I have no real symptoms from the MS. Now if something does reappear in the future then of course I will think "oh, it must have been the copaxone that did that" OR maybe it's the carnivore finally kicking in after 4 years? With MS there is really no way to tell on an individual case basis. Things take so long to develop and so long to go away that changing something with your health care and seeing the results is extremely hard to track. I personally can't try anything harder as far as treatments due to my bladder cancer from 6 years ago. Most other treatments have increased risk of cancer and/or PML, and NO ONE wants PML!

The NMO/SD is really similar to MS and I agree, no truer words have been spoken, it is a long slow process in either direction. On Rituxin/Rituxamab with a couple weekly doses of Neurontin and Prednisone I have been 'flare up' free. Some basic pain and inflammation. That also was a combination of the weight, the work, the birthdays and having an autoimmune disease. The carnivore diet pretty much removed the pain and inflammation, mostly as the weight came off, but before the biggest part came off. For me, I feel like the Rituxin has been working but I also think I have changed the playing field with carnivore. Almost like Rituxin provided me with the health to play at par and carnivore and the gym got me some better than par.

I'm wondering if coming off Rituxin moves the needle back to par, or does the needle move at all. That is my thinking right now.

Scott

1 hour ago, Scott F. said:

The NMO/SD is really similar to MS and I agree, no truer words have been spoken, it is a long slow process in either direction. On Rituxin/Rituxamab with a couple weekly doses of Neurontin and Prednisone I have been 'flare up' free. Some basic pain and inflammation. That also was a combination of the weight, the work, the birthdays and having an autoimmune disease. The carnivore diet pretty much removed the pain and inflammation, mostly as the weight came off, but before the biggest part came off. For me, I feel like the Rituxin has been working but I also think I have changed the playing field with carnivore. Almost like Rituxin provided me with the health to play at par and carnivore and the gym got me some better than par.

I'm wondering if coming off Rituxin moves the needle back to par, or does the needle move at all. That is my thinking right now.

Scott

I informed my doctor of MY decision to quit the copaxone and she had no problem with me doing that. Didn't really matter if she approved or not. It was something I had to try. I figure I can always go back on it if there is something that I'm missing from not taking it. MS is too frick'n weird to try and figure out the disease itself. Copaxone is basically 4 amino acids which help with myelin and it doesn't work like most of the hard core immunosuppresant treatments. I never noticed anything from taking it and so far no difference not taking it. For $25K+ per year a person should see something for results, I think. $25K is a lot of meat medicine 🤣

Yep. My bag is not much more than a liter and it lands between $55k-$57K per bag.

I hate to get all conspiracy-theorists and such, but this is why they need us to stay sick.

LOL

Scott

1 hour ago, Scott F. said:

Yep. My bag is not much more than a liter and it lands between $55k-$57K per bag.

I hate to get all conspiracy-theorists and such, but this is why they need us to stay sick.

LOL

Scott

I look at it this way, I got myself sick by some action or ingredient, so no reason I can't get better by finding out what that action or item was, and then remove it from my life. As humans we have the ability to heal ourselves. I truly believe that statement. My doctors are not much help at all, even in disease management modern medicine is not very good. We've all seen MANY videos and read the stories of people that have healed themselves from things worse than MS. I believe the human mind has more to do with it then many of the other aspects. Fasting has been a huge help for myself. I need to do that more often.

"Eat your meat and get healthy" (grilled Chicken wings for today)

I too am a true believer in fasting.

I think it has played as big a role in my health improvement as anything. Carnivore I think is the main player but thru carnivore I have learned so much more. There is still a ton to learn.

I think today is a rib eye that didn't get cooked last night and a turkey breast. I ate last night about 7PM, worked all night and have been in the shop most of the day.

Tonight will be an eat, attempt to watch TV but crash soon after getting still.

Scott

15 hours ago, Scott F. said:

I too am a true believer in fasting.

I think it has played as big a role in my health improvement as anything. Carnivore I think is the main player but thru carnivore I have learned so much more. There is still a ton to learn.

I think today is a rib eye that didn't get cooked last night and a turkey breast. I ate last night about 7PM, worked all night and have been in the shop most of the day.

Tonight will be an eat, attempt to watch TV but crash soon after getting still.

Scott

A night shift job is not great for human health. I did 2nd shift for over 30 years and my wife was almost 35 years. That definitely affected us both healthwise. We are both MUCH happier being retired.

Yes.

I was on a submarine for 6 years. We lived on a three shift 18 hour day. Every six hours the shift changes and in time there is no distinction between day and night. Of all the things to do int he services, career submariners have the least life expectancy after retirement.

When I got out of the Navy I went to work pouring concrete on dayshift. As soon as the Superintendent found out I could finish concrete (working for my Pop's as a kid). The Superintendent/Foreman moved me to nights to finish concrete.

From there, I started 12 hour rotating swing shifts.

30 years later still swinging shifts.

And yes, it is not a healthy way to make a living but its the only thing I know. LOL

Scott

not sure of your current weight, but I go with 1 gram per pound per day of IDEAL WEIGHT. meaning what would my body weigh if I was 20 years old again, in top condition weighing in for a ufc/wrestling match. true nutrition out of vista CA. has low sweetened powder. I'd encourage anyone to loose the last 20 lbs. After all, we are walking billboards for this diet/lifestyle. It's hard enough to get people to think as is. keep working at it.

I do the same. I'm currently bouncing around 213-218 (down from 306 in May '24 and down from 319 earlier in '24)

I'm guessing my ideal weight is somewhere around 190-200lbs. I based the grams per pound on the 190-200 and struggle to eat that much protein in any given day.

I sort of altered the concept of the diet a couple times due to the fact my appetite was basically no more. If I eat a meal that leaves me comfortably full, I'm not actually hungry again for 24-30 hours. And that meal will be far short of 200 grams of protein. I lessened the fat content to lessen the total amount of food in an attempt to get all the protein. For whatever reason, I gained weight steadily over that period and saw a drop in energy (not normal day to day but the gym sessions sort of flattened out).

When I added the fat back and lessened the protein count my weight started to drop and the gym energy returned.

In another attempt to get the protein in I did so via protein powder (no sugar/no carb brand) and it helped me get closer. A couple months ago I ran out and bought a 50 grams of protein drink from the grocery store. It is 2.5 servings per bottle. I drank half at work that night and within an hour I was as hungry as all get out. With nothing at work, I powered thru that hunger. I didn't put 2 and 2 together until the next night when I drank the second half of that protein drink. Again, within an hour or so, hungry as all get out.

I waited a week and tried it again and it was the same. I spaced those drinks out over the next month to month and half. Each time half of the bottle led to hunger that night and some into the next morning. At least 2-3 days per week I was up to and touching the 190-200 grams of protein (and a much better fat to protein ratio). The weight went up a tad, but the day-to-day swings were not as wide. In a month or so I saw a big difference in the gym. The plates per exercise went up.

You used UFC as an example, and I will use 'professional bodybuilder' (and I am neither...at 55 both of those ships have sailed). I can use the protein drink with sugar and do a "bulking phase" by getting in the protein and then ditch the protein drink and do a more normal carnivore diet as a 'cutting phase' (not that either of them is a goal of mine).

From just a month and a half, for me, and maybe just me, I have found sugar is triggering some hunger. I'm using those grams of sugar to trigger hunger, using the hunger to hit a protein target and using that protein to build muscle (not for aesthetics, but because I have an auto-immune disease that debilitates over time and the more muscle the better I can fight that).

Now next week or next month I may find this first month or so was a one-off. But for right now, it seems to be working.

I'm rolling with it. LOL

Scott

20 hours ago, Scott F. said:

Yes.

I was on a submarine for 6 years. We lived on a three shift 18 hour day. Every six hours the shift changes and in time there is no distinction between day and night. Of all the things to do int he services, career submariners have the least life expectancy after retirement.

When I got out of the Navy I went to work pouring concrete on dayshift. As soon as the Superintendent found out I could finish concrete (working for my Pop's as a kid). The Superintendent/Foreman moved me to nights to finish concrete.

From there, I started 12 hour rotating swing shifts.

30 years later still swinging shifts.

And yes, it is not a healthy way to make a living but its the only thing I know. LOL

Scott

Yo I almost made bublehead until I was told I'd be hot racking with 3 other guys, sleeping next to missle silos.

My last week of sub school I dropped out and spent 5 months in AWT 429 for my orders.

Yep. 3 guys 2 racks. Everyone hot racks til you gain some seniority.

I did sub school after A school. C school for a bit, to the boat, then to dive school in Panama City, then to the shipyards, then to another boat and then got out in 93. It was 2,192 days not that I started counting around a 1000 nor did I keep a logbook counting down days describing every which way I felt like the Navy was not for me.

I realized it was not for me when I arrived at the recruit depot for boot camp all the way til I got out 6 years later. I had a ton of fun with the people I served with, met some of the wildest and most dependable people in the world. And as much as I disliked things it was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Odd to say, I hated it so much but would not change one minute.

Yep, bubble head.

Scott

dunno, I don't use premixed protein drinks there's probably to much sugar etc. in them. I get some non flavored powder measure out the amount of protein I want and mix it in a bowl with a raw egg or a little water into a soupy consistency like oatmeal.