Vegetarians

[Geezy]

Came across this while studying this morning and couldn’t help but chuckle out loud during my quiet time. 
 

“Now God gives to man a new provision for food. Before the Flood God gave to man the green earth, the plant life, to eat. Now He tells Noah that he is able to eat animal life. There are diet faddists, and often this type of thing becomes a part of a person's religion. I once met a lady who was a vegetarian as a part of her religion, and she was quite excited when I told her that these antediluvians were all vegetarians. She thought this reinforced her argument that we should all be vegetarians, and she had her assistant take it down in her notes. However, I think she must have erased it later because I told her this: "I wouldn't make too much of it if I were you because you must remember that it was a bunch of vegetarians who were destroyed in the Flood. If diet had in any way improved them at that time, they would not have been destroyed." We see here that God now permits man to eat flesh.”
J. Vernon McGee
Thru The Bible vol 1

[Bob]

[Miranda]

7 hours ago, Geezy said:

Came across this while studying this morning and couldn’t help but chuckle out loud during my quiet time. 
 

“Now God gives to man a new provision for food. Before the Flood God gave to man the green earth, the plant life, to eat. Now He tells Noah that he is able to eat animal life. There are diet faddists, and often this type of thing becomes a part of a person's religion. I once met a lady who was a vegetarian as a part of her religion, and she was quite excited when I told her that these antediluvians were all vegetarians. She thought this reinforced her argument that we should all be vegetarians, and she had her assistant take it down in her notes. However, I think she must have erased it later because I told her this: "I wouldn't make too much of it if I were you because you must remember that it was a bunch of vegetarians who were destroyed in the Flood. If diet had in any way improved them at that time, they would not have been destroyed." We see here that God now permits man to eat flesh.”
J. Vernon McGee
Thru The Bible vol 1

I love Dr McGee. His voice is still on the radio here. My favorite quote from him is, "you can't sow wild oats in your youth and expect to reep a rose garden in your marriage"

too bad I heard that 15 yrs too late.

[ketomonster]

Not sure I understand what you're saying as it relates to the flood.

[Geezy]

6 hours ago, ketomonster said:

Not sure I understand what you're saying as it relates to the flood.

Mankind were all vegetarians before the flood. We didn’t become meat eaters until after the flood. 

[ketomonster]

I didn't McGee's point,   If diet had improved them in any way they would not have been destroyed.  Sounds like he believes God sent the flood because of vegetarianism.

[Geezy]

14 hours ago, ketomonster said:

I didn't McGee's point,   If diet had improved them in any way they would not have been destroyed.  Sounds like he believes God sent the flood because of vegetarianism.

I don’t believe that’s what he was implying but he was pointing out that being vegetarian didn’t improve their lives as they were all gross sinners who had turned away from God. Noah and his family were vegetarians also but they were saved. It was all about the sinful nature of man and that food will not save us from that sinful nature. Only a change of heart can do that. 
These days man is more deprived than ever regardless of what he eats. 

[ketomonster]

thanks for the clarification

[ketomonster]

hey geoff,   what would you say if someone said.   Noah lived 600 years as a vegetarian?   What Im trying to understand is was there ever a change in humans? why did God give man permission to eat animals?  Or is the answer to my question simply we've always been omnivores?

[Bob]

On 2/8/2025 at 11:31 PM, ketomonster said:

hey geoff,   what would you say if someone said.   Noah lived 600 years as a vegetarian?   What Im trying to understand is was there ever a change in humans? why did God give man permission to eat animals?  Or is the answer to my question simply we've always been omnivores?

There is a lot of theories to this, and unfortunately the Bible doesn't elaborate. I actually plan to do a video(s) on this topic in the future. But here are some speculations. One or more of these could be correct. They all could be correct. They all could be wrong. I may or may not personally believe in all of the things I am about to type...

A) Notice the sudden drop in lifespan after the flood. This implies at least a couple things...

1. Man was closer to perfection before the flood.
2.  Conditions on earth were different before the flood

To elaborate on #2, many believe the Bible speaks of a water canopy that was suspended above the earth. This canopy allowed more temperate climates around the whole globe, including in the poles, thus serving as an explanation on why certain mammals have been found fossilized in the far northern and southern extremities of the planet when they normally would not be well-suited to inhabit those areas. Much of the flood waters is the result of this water/vapor canopy collapsing. 

That canopy may have also protected us from harmful radiation from the sun, thus the longer lifespans. Without the canopy there, we are more susceptible to aging, harm, and mutation. Much of what we ate before the flood may no longer exist, and meat would fill that void. OR, because of that harmful exposure that we would now be subject to with the canopy gone, the nutrition found in meat would counteract those negative effects.

B) BLOOD was set aside and designated for a symbolic purpose after the flood.

After the flood, we see the first reference to eating meat. However, it was at the same time stated that the blood was sacred, represented one's life force, and belonged to the creator. It belonged to him and him alone, and so when you slaughtered an animal, you were required to bleed it to the best of your ability, pouring out on the ground thus returning it to it's rightful owner. Your blood is not yours to do with what you want. It's "on loan" to you, so to speak.

All of this may have been because the spilling of blood would be used to atone for one's sins, and ultimately the spilling of Jesus blood would atone for the sins of all (believing) mankind. 

C) We've eaten meat all along.

The bit about blood in section B above could all still be true, but we ate meat all along. Only after the flood was it made clear not to eat blood because of it's sacred-use significance. After all, we have some questions regarding....

1. Why did Abel think killing animals would please God?
2. God made Adam and Eve garments made from animal skins? And what does that imply?

And then there is much evidence in the way of stone tools, cave paintings, etc, that depict humans being hunters way back in the distant past. Add to that, our intestines and digestive tract bears a design similar to that of carnivorous animals, and NOT that of herbivores. We have a limited capacity to digest plant matter. We thrive on meat and make almost complete use of it, but we struggle to digest plants, whether we are dealing with antinutrients, plant toxins, gas, bloat, and fiber that we poo out undigested. It's almost as if we were DESIGNED to eat a carnivore-centric diet with a little fruitage here and there. So either A) God designed us this way from the beginning, or B) the human digestive tract experienced rapid adaptation after the flood with the introduction of meat in our diets.

 

I still toss this one around in my noggin. I affiliate with a religious organization that teaches nobody ate meat before the flood. But humans aren't the brightest and have proven they will stick anything in their mouths. Plus I meander on the questions I brought up above.

At the same time, it's not a salvation issue. My faith doesn't hinge on the "mystery" of finding an accurate answer to the above questions.

[ketomonster]

And why did Able have a whole flock of sheep??    He knew other animals wanted to eat his sheep,  so eating meat wasn't a strange idea. So you gotta ask yourself did he keep sheep just for the wool OR for the wool and the meat.  Hard to imagine not wanting to at least see what it taste like. 

[Geezy]

On 2/10/2025 at 5:03 PM, ketomonster said:

And why did Able have a whole flock of sheep??    He knew other animals wanted to eat his sheep,  so eating meat wasn't a strange idea. So you gotta ask yourself did he keep sheep just for the wool OR for the wool and the meat.  Hard to imagine not wanting to at least see what it taste like. 

I’m far from a biblical scholar so this is just speculation but I think the sheep were kept for blood sacrifice to God as well as wool and possibly leather. I could also see them milking them. 

[Bob]

"But Abel brought some firstlings of his flock, including their fat." - Genesis 4:4

So the sacrifice was more than just 1 sheep. Throughout scripture, the FAT is always noted to be the most valuable and best part of the animal. Did Abel know this about the fat? If so, how? What happened to the rest of the animal? Was it burned entirely? Left in a field to rot?

[ketomonster]

On 2/12/2025 at 7:56 PM, Geezy said:

I’m far from a biblical scholar so this is just speculation but I think the sheep were kept for blood sacrifice to God as well as wool and possibly leather. I could also see them milking them. 

I kind of agree with Bob,   Abel didn't bring blood, he brought fat and probably meat.  That kind of leads me to believe of all the parts of a sheep, Abel thought the fat or fatty meat was the most sacrificial offering.  And evidently God agreed.  How could he possibly think that if he hadn't experienced fatty meat for himself?  Anyone?

[Geezy]

I kind of agree with Bob,   Abel didn't bring blood, he brought fat and probably meat.  That kind of leads me to believe of all the parts of a sheep, Abel thought the fat or fatty meat was the most sacrificial offering.  And evidently God agreed.  How could he possibly think that if he hadn't experienced fatty meat for himself?  Anyone?

Sounds logical but when you butcher an animal it’s easy to see the fat.
Then, prior to the flood all of mankind was vegetarian. We didn’t start eating meat until after the flood or at least there’s no mention of eating meat until then.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ketomonster]

28 minutes ago, Geezy said:

 prior to the flood all of mankind was vegetarian. .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 Telling Noah he could eat meat doesn't mean he expressly prohibited Adam from doing so, at least not in any translations I've read.  God gave Adam dominion over livestock/cattle/birds/fish/wild animals.  Why would God give Adam dominion over a fish or any other creature for that matter if he was only expected to tend a garden?  I don't see a meaningful difference between what God told Noah and what he told Adam. Dominion means manage/use.  I think Its a pretty big leap to insist Adam would need to manage and use every creature at his disposal to tend a garden. But hey I'm no a gardener or a bible scholar. 

[Orweller]

4 hours ago, ketomonster said:

 Telling Noah he could eat meat doesn't mean he expressly prohibited Adam from doing so, at least not in any translations I've read.  God gave Adam dominion over livestock/cattle/birds/fish/wild animals.  Why would God give Adam dominion over a fish or any other creature for that matter if he was only expected to tend a garden?  I don't see a meaningful difference between what God told Noah and what he told Adam. Dominion means manage/use.  I think Its a pretty big leap to insist Adam would need to manage and use every creature at his disposal to tend a garden. But hey I'm no a gardener or a bible scholar. 

It all started with that damn apple. It shows how bad fruit really is, they should have eaten the snake!

[ketomonster]

haha ^  Interestingly which gender did the snake beguile? 

Edited February 24 by ketomonster

[ketomonster]

in Leviticus 17:12 God restates to Isreal "dont eat bloody meat"    He could have been telling Noah, don't be like the others you knew who ate bloody meat.

[Geezy]

 Telling Noah he could eat meat doesn't mean he expressly prohibited Adam from doing so, at least not in any translations I've read.  God gave Adam dominion over livestock/cattle/birds/fish/wild animals.  Why would God give Adam dominion over a fish or any other creature for that matter if he was only expected to tend a garden?  I don't see a meaningful difference between what God told Noah and what he told Adam. Dominion means manage/use.  I think Its a pretty big leap to insist Adam would need to manage and use every creature at his disposal to tend a garden. But hey I'm no a gardener or a bible scholar. 

I get what you’re saying but in Genesis I find nothing where God sanctioned the eating of animals until after the flood.

After the creation of man and land animals on day six of the Creation week, God instructed Adam saying, “I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food” (Genesis 1:29). There is no record of God telling Adam and Eve that they could butcher cows or smoke chickens, but He did authorize them to eat the seeds and fruits of plants and trees. In the very next chapter of Genesis, it is recorded where God told Adam that he could eat “of every tree of the garden” (except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil—2:16-17). Notice that nothing is said here about animals—only vegetation. Then again, in Genesis 3, when God sentenced Adam and Eve to a life outside of the Garden of Eden, He said: “And you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground” (3:18-19). Three times in the first three chapters of the Bible, God instructed man regarding his diet. Each time, the Bible records only where God permitted man to eat vegetation (some of which could be made into bread—3:19). The Bible nowhere mentions man receiving permission from God to eat any kind of animal until after the Flood. It was then that God said:
And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs (Genesis 9:1-3, emp. added).
Just as God had authorized mankind to eat “green herbs” many centuries earlier, after the Flood, God gave His permission for mankind to eat “all things”—including all animals that move on the Earth and swim in the sea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk