Bob

On 3/27/2024 at 12:05 AM, Andre said:

If this experience has taught me anything, it's that there's nothing magical about eating fat and protein. At least not when you are a healthy person

Yes, we said that too. If you are obese and suffering from chronic and auto-immune conditions that you were told were "incurable" and that you have to take medications for life to manage it, then keto and carnivore becomes a miracle. You lose weight and reverse those diseases by eating an all natural human diet, even without counting calories. But if you are already metabolically healthy, which you are, why are you expecting a miracle? When you get down to such low body fat percentages, you are going to have to work it off. 

Case in point, I was 232 lbs - ate nothing but meat and eggs and cheese and dropped to 175-ish. I hit that target in November, and I have not lost a pound since. I, too, would like to take off another 15 more yet. I really haven't changes anything about my diet, aside from adding back breakfast and I occasionally snack. Starting in April, I will return to intermittent fasting, eating at noon and at 7pm, and I will start hiking the trails again because it's warming up outside. I may even have to hit the gym. The first 50+ lbs melted away over 6 months, but I am going to have to work for the rest.

When I intermittently fast, that puts me in a calorie deficit. So yes, I would suggest counting your calories. Even though you are eating to satisfaction, "satisfaction" for you may be more food than you realize. Have you tried tracking your calories and macros in a notebook or an app like Carb Manager?

Hello Steve,

I would think yes, you can. If you are not cracking them open and eating the kernal, you will just be basically sucking the salt off the shell and then discarding it. 

59 minutes ago, Andre said:

I have come to the conclusion that the Carnivorie diet will not allow me to lose the weight I still have (15-20lbs) and achieve my goal of having less than 15% body fat without having to starve or count every calorie I eat.

Perhaps. We've given you tons of advice. We're not sure if you have applied any of it though. You could incorporate intermittent fasting. You can count calories if you like - these can still be used as a guage for how much or how little you are eating. You can also adjust your macros. For example, if you are eating mostly lean protein and not a lot of fat, then you are likely not spending much time in ketosis as your body converts the protein to glucose. 

1 hour ago, Andre said:

1 - So i would like to ask what can i incorporate to the Carnivore diet? 
2-What are the food i could eat in a ketogentic diet? (How much carbs is allowed in a Ketognic diet?)
3- Should i expect any weight/fat gain?

A ketogenic diet is high fat, moderate protein, because you want your body to adapt to using ketones for energy instead of glucose. On a keto diet, you can have fatty meat, any form of zero carb dairy, and low carb cruciferous vegetables, such as lettuce, broccoli, asparugus, brussel sprouts, etc, provided you stay under about 20g of carbs per day.

Just like on a properly formulated ketogenic carnivore diet, you would expect weight loss, not weight gain. Of course, if you overeat or don't consume enough fat to become fat adapted, there is a chance you will stall or gain weight. 

Good luck to you too.

On 3/1/2024 at 8:12 AM, Bob said:

you can simultaneously put on muscle while reducing body fat.

1 hour ago, Andre said:

You can lose 10 lbs of fat and gain 2 lbs of muscle

Looks like we're in a agreement here.

1 hour ago, Andre said:

I dont think you understand how hard is to build muscle mass

Yes, I am well aware.

Hey Drew. Good to hear from you.

4 hours ago, Coldstomp said:

Instead of OMAD I broke it up into 3 meals to make sure I get some more fat/protein, I guess it's called priming(?).

I'm not sure. I've seen YouTube videos mentioning "priming" but I haven't watched them yet. 

13 hours ago, louis said:

I will and am keeping strong. I am determined to succeed. 

You can do it! @Geezy has good advice about constantly watching and listening to carnivore content, whether on YouTube or on podcasts. It keeps you in the mindset of sticking to it. 

For me, I am a religious person who takes my vows seriously. So I vowed never to eat grains or sugar ever again, save for a special occasion like a wedding anniversary. Now I have to keep that promise to myself

On 3/25/2024 at 9:32 PM, Erik said:

Went to McD's and got a bacon cheeseburger, sans bun, with water to drink.

Beautiful! 

On 3/25/2024 at 9:32 PM, Erik said:

I cheated and got small fries too.

Uh-oh! 

On 3/25/2024 at 9:32 PM, Erik said:

For supper, two lamb loin chops and some sauerkraut.

Awesome!

On 3/25/2024 at 9:32 PM, Erik said:

My goals are to get my A1C under pre-diabetes, and to help my diverticulitis problems.

You can do it. Try to minimize or completely eliminate that french fry intake for faster results

Yesterday was 3 eggs and sausage in the morning. We bought this 2 pound pork sausage roll at Sam's. I crumbled half of it and stored it for later and made patties with the rest.

For dinner I did the triple Baconator, plain, no bun from Wendy's because I was pressed for time.

I've had beef, chicken, pork, veal, duck, rabbit, lamb, venison, turkey, alligator, pheasant, and bison for sure.

I am not sure if I have had goat.

I have not had kangaroo, wild boar, or emu.

15 Meats You Should Be Adding To Your Burger Mix

By Emily Kammerlohr|April 4, 2023 6:23 pm EST

Karen Brough/Shutterstock

The United States has a long-standing love of hamburgers. Burgers are an iconic symbol of the country's food culture. We eat them at quintessentially American moments, like backyard barbecues or July Fourth celebrations. But burgers are still a favorite family dinner option — even when there isn't a holiday to celebrate — as they are quick and easy to make. You can even eat them on the go. Burgers also tend to be cheap, whether you order them from a restaurant, or make them yourself.

No matter how classic the hamburger is, you might find yourself getting a little bit bored with it. Whether you are looking to reduce your beef consumption due to taste or environmental concerns, there are plenty of delicious options to try. You might be able to find a few of these at your local grocery store. But more unique burger meats — like alligator, kangaroo, or bison — might require some more searching. Get ready to dig in for the bite of your life. Here are 15 meats you should be adding to your burger mix. 

Chicken

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Chicken is one type of meat you should consider adding to your burger mix. This meat is already so popular as a beef substitute that there are many chains dedicated to serving only chicken — we're looking at you, Chick-fil-A. Whether you're a fan of spicy, grilled, or fried chicken, these restaurants likely have what you want. These same chicken dishes can also be made at home. 

When using chicken meat to make burgers, there are a few cuts to look for. You can buy ground chicken at most grocery stores. You can also make a chicken burger from any boneless chicken cutlet. 

This meat could be a good option for those interested in eating for good health. According to WebMD, chicken is a good source of protein and other nutrients. It is particularly high in zinc, iron, and copper. Eating foods that contain these vitamins and minerals is associated with certain health benefits.  

Pork

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If you're feeling bored of beef burgers for dinner, reach for some pork. You can use ground pork meat to form burger patties. You could also buy some thinner pork chops, cook them, then place one between your burger buns. 

The taste of pork can vary, depending on the cut of meat and its preparation method. Pork usually has a slightly sweet, yet mostly savory flavor. When cooked, pork can develop a crispy crust on the outside, while remaining tender and juicy on the inside. This is excellent when used for burgers. It's even better when paired with your favorite toppings.

Consider adding spices like garlic, paprika, or cumin to your pork burger. These seasonings provide smokiness and heat. Then, toppings like bacon, cheese, or caramelized onions can really step up your meal. These ingredients add depth of flavor. They also help to mimic the taste of a more familiar beef burger.

Veal

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Veal is technically a type of beef. But this meat has such a distinct flavor that it's worth considering as a beef alternative for your burgers. Veal meat comes exclusively from young cattle. These cows could be between 16 weeks and eight months old when they are killed to make veal. By comparison, cattle raised for beef are typically slaughtered when they are between two and three years of age. 

The texture, color, and flavor of veal are distinct from typical beef. Veal meat is usually pale pink. It can also contain less fat than beef. Veal is known for being especially tender. Fans of the meat will tell you this softer texture makes for a superior eating experience.

There are several different veal cuts you could use in your burger. But we recommend using ground veal meat to form your patties. If you have a meat grinder at home, you can mince your own meat. We consider this type of meat a great protein alternative for burgers. However, because of the age of the calves when they go to slaughter, not everyone likes to eat veal. Consider consulting your guests before serving them a veal burger. 

Kangaroo

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While kangaroo might not seem like an obvious choice for burger night, it's a great red meat alternative. According to K-ROO, kangaroo meat is packed with protein. It also contains beneficial nutrients like iron and zinc. 

Kangaroo meat may be a more sustainable choice than beef. These animals are native to Australia, where they are not raised in inhumane factory farms. The Australian government has even encouraged its citizens to increase their kangaroo meat intake in the past when there have been spikes in population numbers. When this happens, the excess number of kangaroos can threaten local ecosystems.

This meat has a slightly gamey, tangy taste. It is significantly less fatty than beef or pork. This makes kangaroo meat ideal for those keeping an eye on their cholesterol levels. In Australia, kangaroo meat is easy to find at the supermarket. In other countries, you'll need to find a specialty butcher or buy the meat online.

Duck


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While you might typically associate duck with fine dining, this type of meat can also be used for burgers. Duck meat has a rich and unique flavor that is different from other types of poultry. Its versatility is shown through its appearance in many different cuisines, from French food to Chinese food.

This meat is tender, juicy, and slightly gamey. Its savory qualities allow it to pair well with pretty much every sauce you have in your pantry. You can serve it with fries, coleslaw, noodles, or rice. 

According to VerywellFit, duck meat is a good source of protein, iron, and vitamin B12. It is also higher in fat than other poultry, which can give it a richer flavor and texture (via Maple Leaf Farms). When making burgers from duck meat, consider using duck cutlets for a more solid bite. You could also use ground duck meat if you prefer the traditional burger patty texture.

Rabbit

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Eating rabbits may seem controversial since many people keep the animal as a pet. However, there are some reasons to consider using rabbit meat for your burgers. This protein is packed with nutrients. Rabbit meat is lean yet tender. It even has a delicate, slightly sweet flavor. It's approachable enough to consider trying, as many compare the meat to chicken.

Rabbit meat is lower in fat and calories than many other types of meat, according to Wholey. If you are watching your red meat intake, try purchasing some rabbit meat to use during your next burger night. While some grocery stores carry rabbit meat, you may have more luck finding it at your local butcher. If a butcher near you doesn't sell rabbit meat, you could always order it online. The saddle is often considered one of the most tender cuts of rabbit meat. You'll probably want to mince this up to make rabbit burger patties. 

Lamb

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Lamb critics might say the meat is too gamey for burgers. But lamb meat fans will tell you otherwise. It's slightly sweet, yet fatty, making for an excellent flavor. This meat is not even as underrated as it may seem. Even though lamb isn't that popular in American cuisine, lamb is a staple ingredient in many cultures around the world. This includes Mediterranean cuisine, Middle Eastern cuisine, and Indian cuisine. You can dress up your lamb burger with mint jelly, tzatziki, ketchup, or mustard. 

If you are trying to eat more sustainably, lamb meat could be a good option. Lambs are young sheep. Sheep produce significantly less greenhouse gas emissions than cows, according to a scientific study. This is because a sheep's digestive systems work differently from a cow's, resulting in less methane production. This environmental factor might help to encourage you to consider using lamb for your next burger night. 

Venison

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Venison — which usually refers to deer meat — is a great burger option. This beef alternative is especially useful if you are keen on catching your own meat. It has a unique flavor that venison fans can't get enough of. This type of meat tastes rich, gamey, and earthy. Overall, it's very bold and savory. 

If you've tried venison in the past and disliked it, the meat might have been prepared incorrectly. If venison is cooked wrong — or if the animal was butchered badly — the meat can be too bitter or chewy. It's worth it to give venison another try, just in case. If you are still hesitant, some people like mixing minced venison with other meats, like beef and pork. This combination is a good way to get used to eating venison.

We also like the fact that eating venison comes with nutritional benefits. According to the University of Illinois, venison is an excellent source of iron, zinc, and vitamin K. This nutritional option is attractive to those looking to maintain a balanced diet.

Turkey

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Turkey isn't just for Thanksgiving. This lean white meat is a popular burger alternative. You can find it on the menu of several restaurants. But you can also make turkey burgers yourself.

If you are trying to up your protein intake, turkey is a great option. This meat is a good source of essential nutrients. According to Medical News Today, turkey contains vitamin B6 and niacin. It is also a good source of selenium, which is important for healthy thyroid function and immune system support, reports Healthline.

Turkey has a milder flavor than beef. It tastes somewhat sweet and tangy. We recommend pairing your turkey meat burger with foods like avocado, cranberry sauce, or even caramelized onions. Any of these go great with the flavor or turkey. You can usually buy ground turkey meat or pre-made turkey burgers at the grocery store. Either could be used for your next burger night. 

Wild boar

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If you enjoy hunting, you might be thinking of more ways to incorporate the meat you collect into your daily diet. If you find yourself at the meat processing plant with a wild boar, know that the meat you have will make an excellent addition to burger night. Although both are technically types of pigs, the meat of wild boar tastes very different from pork raised on a farm.

Wild boar meat is leaner and darker than domestic pork. It has a distinctly rich, nutty, gamey, and slightly sweet flavor. That said, the taste of wild boar meat can vary depending on the animal's diet, age, and the way it was killed and processed. If you are familiar with eating other types of wild-caught game, you might find the taste is similar to venison or elk. Wild boar is often used in sausages, stews, and other hearty dishes. But it can also easily be shaped into burger patties that you can eat at home. 

Alligator

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If you find yourself in Louisiana, you'll notice that alligator starts popping up on the menus of many local restaurants. These businesses will tell you the meat tastes like chicken. For the most part, they are correct. Alligator meat is white meat that is mild in flavor. It tastes like chicken to some folks, but a little bit fishy to others.

Alligator meat is usually prepared as a part of Southern dishes like gumbo, jambalaya, and even fried alligator nuggets. Because it is a delicate meat, you'll find that most alligator burgers are fried. This way, the meat doesn't fall apart as you eat it. 

If you are cooking alligator burgers at home, consider deep frying the meat for the same satisfying crunch. You can dress up an alligator burger similar to the way you would a chicken burger. But given its Southern roots, we recommend using some cajun seasoning, as well. 

Pheasant

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Pheasant is a pleasant meat to use for burgers. The bird tastes pretty similar to chicken or turkey, making it an easy option to reach for when you want to try something new. If you are worried about the meat tasting too gamey, it's helpful to know that younger pheasants are typically more tender and have a milder flavor. On the other hand, older birds may have a slightly stronger taste. It's the same idea behind veal being more tender than beef; the older the animal, the tougher the meat.

This lean white meat is typically served in stews, soups, or as a main course. It was historically considered to be exotic meat — available only to the wealthy and elite — but this is no longer the case. Hunters and food enthusiasts alike are adding roast pheasant to their burgers. This is a great way to explore an interesting new dish.

Bison

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Bison — a species related to the buffalo — is a type of animal sometimes killed for its meat. Bison meat has a slightly sweeter, richer, and more gamey flavor than beef. It's also somewhat leaner. Even those who typically don't like eating wild-caught game tend to enjoy bison. This is because it doesn't have a strong aftertaste, unlike deer or elk.

Native American tribes have been eating bison for thousands of years, well before cattle arrived in North America. Because the animals are native to the land, bison meat is also a more environmentally friendly and humane option than cows raised in feedlots. However, you should make sure to purchase bison that is grass-fed or pasture-raised to ensure that your meat is sustainable and humane.  

Bison meat is high in protein, iron, and other important nutrients (via WebMD). Many restaurants have a bison burger on their menu. But you can also enjoy a bison burger at home, as well. 

Goat

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If you enjoy eating lamb, you will probably enjoy eating goat. Goat meat is an exciting variation to add to your burger rotation. It's known for being chewy and tough. But this doesn't mean it can't make a great burger. Goat meat can be quite tender if cooked properly. 

Many people find that goat meat has a rich, earthy flavor. This is part of why it pairs well with strong spices and bold flavors. Goat meat is a staple in many Middle Eastern, South Asian, and Caribbean cuisines. 

If you want to add international flavor to your burger night, consider putting goat on the menu. Plus, goat meat is often considered a more sustainable choice than beef. This is because goats can be raised on land that is unsuitable for other types of livestock. They also require less water than cows. However, goats still produce a good amount of methane gas, meaning they aren't the greenest choice of meat for your next burger night. 

Emu

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As an animal from Australia, the emu isn't eaten widely in other parts of the world. But this type of meat is beloved down under. Even though the animal is a national symbol of the country — along with the kangaroo — it is still allowed to be eaten.

Emu meat is dark red. It has a mild, slightly sweet flavor that kind of tastes like lean beef. It's also tender and juicy, which makes for a great burger with lots of flavors. Since having a diverse diet is a common piece of health advice, unique emu meat is a great option to reach for when you want to try something new. 

It's also considered somewhat sustainable, compared to other types of meat. Emus have soft feet, which prevents more damage to the existing soil where they are raised. In addition to being used for burger meat, you may find emu served as part of a stew or roast. 

ARTICLE SOURCE: https://www.thedailymeal.com/1248782/meats-you-should-be-adding-to-your-burger-mix/

11 hours ago, toucansam said:

Shortly after a meal (any meal -- eggs, steak, seafood), I would briefly hit 130-140 before coming back down quickly.  Without exception, I tested every morning as soon as I came downstairs to make breakfast.  I was fasted when I tested (8 hours or so, just fasting while sleeping).  The lowest number in that period was 88, the highest was 105, and I was almost always 99-101.  I know about the dawn phenomenon.

All of this is completely normal. Healthy blood glucose when fasting is between 70 and 99, and as long as it's above 50 it is considered acceptable. Likewise, a spike up to 140 in after eating is also normal. 

11 hours ago, toucansam said:

But, reading about and watching other carnivores online, I've seen many consistently post blood glucose levels in the 70-80 range.

 I can only guess here, and I would assume they are very high fat and moderate to lower protein on their macros.

11 hours ago, toucansam said:

I know the body can convert protein into glucose, and I lift weights 5x a week and stay very active, so I eat a large amount of protein.

And so your body was converting some of that protein into glucose, which is then detected in your blood.

12 hours ago, toucansam said:

My blood glucose levels are still almost 101 first thing in the morning.  So even with the addition of carbs, albeit minimal amounts by SAD standards, my blood glucose seems to remain steady.

So you're still in the normal range. You burn off or store the carbs by the time morning has rolled around and that's why you still measure the same. 

The reason many on keto or carnivore will aim for moderate protein and really high fat macros is to become fat adapted. Until you are fat adapted, your body will convert some protein you consume into glucose. You say you were eating a large amount of protein and working out and being very active. Much of this excess protein was likely being converted to glucose. 

Welcome aboard "J". Sorry it took so long to approve these posts. I was installing a tile backsplash for my brother today and was away from the internet.

11 hours ago, toucansam said:

I found that I could do 10+ mile rucks with 60lbs, after a 24 hour fast, on carnivore.  Sustained energy for days.  

Rucking is something I want to get into this summer

Started my day with an Omelette stuffed with roast beef and pepper jack cheese with salt and seasonings. Sam's Club was selling cans of pre-cooked roast beef, a canned meat I have NEVER seen before, so I thought I would give it a try. Pretty bland out of the can which is why I had to bust out the seasonings. It was also too lean, so I had to fatten it up with butter and cheese. But in the end I produced something that tasted very good.

14 hours ago, J_R said:

... using a properly controlled randomized control trial to prove scientifically what many in the carnivore diet community think they already know is extremely useful.

Oh I absolutely agree, and that is what I was trying to get at. If this proposal could be executed as outlined, it would be a valuble reference. 

14 hours ago, J_R said:

These are not secular resources, they are science... Anecdotes are only raw data and useless when compared to actual proper RCT data.

I agree with this too. 

I am a religious person, so sometimes that language crosses over into other things I say and talk about. Maybe I could have not included the word "secular" and just said "resources", but by "secular resources" I meant resources outside my own (anecdotal) experiences.

That is excellent. I have yet to drop my blood pressure meds, but I plan to experient with dropping one of them this spring/summer. I'm going to tell my doctor at my next appointment.

On 3/21/2024 at 6:30 AM, Geezy said:

After a time the science was proven in my results. I no longer need the science for validation because my experience is the proof of concept. 

I agree. My results speak volumes. But I am a research hound and I love to have secular resources to back up what I am doing. These are powerful when arguing with the doctor, lol

So here in Ohio, we haven't had much of a winter. Winter has felt like spring. Nice above freezing temps. 

But now that it's the first couple days of Spring, we have freezing temps and snow. I swear the seasons are off and we need a leap month to correct them, lol.

On 3/20/2024 at 9:22 PM, Geezy said:

Yeah I can understand that but in my opinion one shouldn’t try introducing that kind of stuff into their diet until they are in a maintenance stage. Otherwise it can sabotage the weak ones.

You're absolutely right.

Generally, I just love to see anyone get off the SAD diet. Animal-based can be a good start for some people, especially currently healthy ones. But those of us with weight issues, chronic disease, and sugar & food addiction need to start off more strict, because the natural sugars in fruit is going to be a trigger that sends you spiraling for cakes, cookies, and pies. 

4. Low-carb animal-based (carnivore-based), allows some fruit - stay under 100 carbs.
3. Meat-based keto, no fruit, occasional berries - stay under 25 carbs.
2. Ketovore - very little vegetation - stay under 10 carbs.
1. True carnivore - zero plant matter - carbs will vary but close to zero.

Some animal-based influencers are advocating 300-400 carbs a day, but that equals 1200-1600 calories per day coming from carbs/fructose. I personally don't see how you can call that "animal-based" when the majority of your calories are not coming from animals, lol.

On 3/20/2024 at 9:31 PM, Geezy said:

I was a little concerned about what the food choices might be because it was at a Mexican restaurant.

Yeah, it's a struggle at Mexican Restaurants. Usually that's a moment when I just dip my toes back into ketovore for that particular meal. I try to avoid Mexican at all costs now but the wife and kids want to go there every so often.

2 hours ago, louis said:

My body is hurting

Do you mean that you are having negative reactions to eating off plan? If so, that is a good motivator not to eat those particular foods ever again. 

2 hours ago, louis said:

So I start again right here, right now. 

My aim is to get into a cold, cold shower in the future when I am having these cravings. Start to log what I am eating and doing a whole lot more.

I can do this. I am doing this.

That's the spirit. If you stumble, get right back up. And I mean the very next meal. Never think that since you blew one meal, that you can continue throwing off the rest of your day and "start tomorrow". You start again, right here, right now, just like you said. 

I don't have cravings anymore. But when I did, I would just eat/snack on something that was on plan. 

So yesterday for breakfast I didn't have time to cook so I went through the Wendy's drive thru and got 3 sides of egg, 3 sides of sausage, and 3 sides of bacon. Less than $10 and still on plan

For dinner, I had a beef kebob, a lamb kebob, and some giant sea scallops. I was actually impressed with the lamb meat and definitely want to add more of that to my diet.

The cauliflower Spanish "rice" was delicious and passed exceptionally well in lieu of the real thing. 

It's been almost a year since I have had this, since I've been hovering closer to carnivore end of the spectrum most of the time. My wife is sick of beef. I could probably surprise her with this, lol.

5 hours ago, louis said:

I also drank some Japanese tea earlier on. I later found out that it is made from roasted barley.

Interesting. I still do black tea and green tea, but these are not made from grains. 

I did find it funny that the article referred to one of the names of this way of eating as a "carnivore diet", but I do get it. Animal-based diets that allow for fruit is kind of an off-shoot of the carnivore diet. I shared the article because we do support our Animal-based friends here and the article was fairly positive. 

Depending on your metabolic health and personal physiology, some people can tolerate a little fruit and even benefit from it, while others need to avoid it altogether.

23 minutes ago, Orweller said:

Good news for diabetics. I think for the the rest of us, maybe a bit redundant. 

I agree. Some who are just dipping their toes into low carb diets, but not committing to a strict whole food keto or carnivore diet, get interested in these, as does those who want to start adding back foods and want to see what said food does to their blood sugar levels.

I know what works for me, so I don't have much of an interest myself.