I wonder........

When looking across the aisle at someone on the sugar diet do they look back at me on the carnivore diet with the same bewilderment?

I will drop by here and there tonight. 5 nights in a row at work with basically nothing to do and on my last night they actually expect productivity. The nerve of an employer to expect something in return. LOL Just kidding. I'd much rather have a lot to do as it will make the night go by faster. The last five nights have been dragging.

Should be some good conversation.

Scott

We start in 10 minutes. Hope to see you there.

The StreamYard link to join us onscreen is in the first post in this topic....

https://carnivoretalk.com/topic/1337-monday-night-live-streams-how-you-can-watch-andor-be-a-guest-with-bob-geezy/

We're still reusing the same link each week, so far.

I dropped in a watched a few minutes here and there.

I guess, mostly, I didn't realize how big of a thing the sugar diet is for a number of people.

The videos on youtube are ever increasing. To each his own, but if a way of eating can be scrutinized for sustainability, the sugar diet has to score rather low. I'm biased but much less sustainable than the carnivore approach.

Good conversation on Saladini. I can see where the reintroduction of carbs and some sugars could be beneficial to some, especially someone with elite type sports activity with a really deep need for both quick and sustained energy sources. I can't really see 150-300 carbs every day, but I can see the advantages of using those carbs to move in and out of the lower ends of ketosis. I mentioned before the guy in my gym who has been carnivore for four years but shifted to a carb load one day a week about a year ago. He is strict carnivore six days per week and on Thursdays he eats his normal carnivore meal plus two sweet potatoes. He works out Mon-Tues-Wed, skips Thursday and then does a really hard total body workout on Friday, then off the weekend. I can see where this would aid in athletic performance but falls far short of 300 carbs per day. This is a very interesting conversation for me.

Also, good conversation around the ancestral use of fruits and such. They were ready and available only a few weeks out of the year, and at some point I am sure they were preserved or dried and used later in the year. Maybe more available in certain geographic areas than others. That is miniscule in comparison to being shipped all over the world from all over the world to make them readily available 24/7/365 just about everywhere in the world.

Hopefully I will be able to join in next week.

Scott

Sugar diet,huh?

Yeah,we humans used to eat whatever we had access to, whenever that was possible. No diet plans or choices. Just survival.

We have completely different problems now,everything being available for us western,lucky folks at all times.

I wonder how long all this luxury will last? We are using up all resources in such a manner that who knows when things are forced to change?

Meanwhile I will enjoy very low carbs and high animal fat to stay in good condition.

21 hours ago, Scott F. said:

I wonder........

When looking across the aisle at someone on the sugar diet do they look back at me on the carnivore diet with the same bewilderment?

I will drop by here and there tonight. 5 nights in a row at work with basically nothing to do and on my last night they actually expect productivity. The nerve of an employer to expect something in return. LOL Just kidding. I'd much rather have a lot to do as it will make the night go by faster. The last five nights have been dragging.

Should be some good conversation.

Scott

Funny you say this..... try doing this for 6 months straight less the WTHay I'm eating look /WTHay they're eating look.

I try to keep myself occupied but being on restrictions, 1 arm (shhhh I know you know) I tend to go down rabbit holes

ignoring work and concentrating on things I can listen to while not havin to see any charts/comparisons etc 🙄

I'm gettin while the gettin's good..... come this fall-winter I won't have the luxury of what I'm (NOT) doin now 🤪

On 6/2/2025 at 11:37 PM, Scott F. said:

especially someone with elite type sports activity with a really deep need for both quick and sustained energy sources

And that was one of our observations and topics of discussion. The people promoting this sugar diet are already super lean. They don't have much fat to lose. In addition, they are super active. If you chugged sugar and then hit the gym and pushed your body to the limit for hours at a time, you will be burning all that up immediately and blood sugar levels will probably remain low, or return to low very quickly.

But most people looking to lose weight are not going to put in that kind of effort, and so all the sugar has nowhere to go.

This past week I had about 80 hours of night shift in 6 days. Five of them with hardly anything to do and only had one productive night, which was the last, thus missing most of Monday night's 'discussion'.

I probably watched videos and then read referenced studies (chunks of them) when they were available. It was 'personally educational'. I work in an industry where 'root cause failure analysis' and identifying the 'single point of failure' are a must and is a really big part of the job. I'm the guy on the production end that has to land with laboratory guidelines and then proof it from the production floor. Babbling, but the most important thing in our lab is the 'control standards' which is the material our samples are tested against for purity, performance and sustainability.

As I was reading a lot of these studies and watching the videos I could only help to compare the 'control subjects' of the studies to our 'standards' we use for testing. Our 'standards' are created the same each time with an exact specification which makes me think of the variabilities of the control subjects even in the most sophisticated/complex scientific studies.

On this thread, take me, Bob and Meathead. I am guessing we are all white males, between 40 and 60, with a wife and a job. If I went back thru all the threads and read the posts on this forum, as well as the couple three video chats I watched/participated, and if this were a scientific study.....the carnivore diet is 100% effective for all white males between 40 and 60. We all know that is not true, but at the same time that is what the data suggests/implies/indicates. (Geezy, you have one or two more birthdays than the criteria of this study, maybe next time, LOL)

All three of us took a much different path to get to 40-60 and that path factors. As I read a lot of these studies I see so much variability. I guess that is why I can get 'overly' interested in everyone's person journey.

I believe in the science, I believe in the data. I just think a lot of it can easily be manipulated to say something different. I don't see the sugar diet as being effective for me when I was 325lbs, already eating a dumpster diet, with turning wrenches, dragging hoses and pumps and walking samples to the lab was my only means of exercise. I could have turned 325 into 350 in pretty much no time.

I watched several of the sugar diet videos and I did not see one person north of 300 pounds nor did I see any of the transformations from 300lbs to 200lbs. Maybe they are out there, and maybe I will see one.

I'm strict carnivore and although my version it good for me, I have found that going strict red meat only is actually better for me as an individual. There is no way I could look across the aisle and say, "Hey, Geezy, red meat/nothing else is the only way". Would he see some benefits? Maybe, maybe not. Could our shared experiences help us (and others) learn? Absolutely. @Miranda has mentioned fasting, I am a big fan for me, and I think it will help with her. Do I know that enough to push the agenda? Nope, not in the least.

Again, babbling on, after a 72 hour week long, self-induced education. LOL

Hope everyone has a good week.

Scott

Thank you @Scott F. .

Once bit twice shy.

It doesn't take an engineer, or any

educated rocket scientist to conclude

after experiencing the same outcome

after a 50+ year study (n=1).

Majority of world's population with same health issues have the same outcome.

Along comes layman, blue-collar grunts saying whoaaa looks like same diet just a different name (lipstick on a pig). Well no way we're going back down that bumpy path we did for 50 years.

On 6/4/2025 at 10:06 AM, Scott F. said:

I watched several of the sugar diet videos and I did not see one person north of 300 pounds nor did I see any of the transformations from 300lbs to 200lbs. Maybe they are out there, and maybe I will see one.

We will see in the months ahead... or maybe we won't.

Notice there are not a large pool of YouTube videos by people proclaiming, "I lost XXX lbs on Weight Watchers" or "Slim-Fast reversed my _______ auto-immune disease!". However, when it comes to keto and carnivore, all sorts of individuals create content to try and spread the word because after a lifetime of trying those other diets that didn't work and being told by medical professionals "it's just genetic" and there is nothing you can do, CARNIVORE feels like an amazing miracle, and we are unable to keep it to ourselves.

Will we see a guy like Bill Knott or Todd Bockness, who were huge and have lost HUNDREDS of pounds so far, start vlogging their life on the sugar diet? Far less likely I am sure. Maybe a few here and there, but they will have to do it intermittedly (i.e. sugar "fasting") or take supplements to make it work, just like the vegans do.

I don't think this "sugar diet" is going to go away just yet. It's going to be heralded as a weapon to battle our "carnivnore, high fat propaganda".

I’m experimenting with the sugar diet and sugar fasting after coming off 9 months of ketovore followed by two months of the SAD diet where I gained back 10 pounds from what I lost while keto.

There are a number of small unheard of channels of normal people experiencing huge success with sugar diet. Latchkey Gen Xer, Skeleton city, Sweet Truck’n, and more. These aren’t athletes and they aren’t health and fitness influencers. They certainly aren’t hammering their bodies with high amounts of exercise.

In my opinion, the most important thing to remember with the sugar diet is that it’s a weight loss diet. It’s not meant to cure autoimmune disease. It’s not meant to be an elimination diet in the same sense as carnivore. It’s helping people shed body fat at higher rates.

The idea isn’t to become a vegan. No one is promoting that. Sugar fasting (no protein and no fat other than what’s in fruit) is designed for expedited drops in body weight. Sugar diet (fruit in the morning with lean protein in the evening) is meant for slowed and more controlled weight loss. Then people have the freedom to eat what they like when they reach goal body weight. If the scale creeps up they can fall back on sugar fasting or dieting to lose what they gained.

TLDR: sugar dieting and fasting is a weight loss strategy, not a cure to chronic autoimmune disorders or food intolerance.

I think most of the negativity comes from the name more so than the concept. If it were renamed 'fruit only' diet it would have been better received. When the title is SUGAR DIET and the first images are people with Mountain Dews, snack cakes and potato chips there is automatically a negative connotation.

Sort of like carnivores are people eating meat without knives or utensils. We are killing animals, remove the meat by hand and eating it as the blood drips down our chin. True carnivore style.

It is still sugar based but it is not like the intent, or the concept is for people to be eating a ton of sugar packets to get thru the day.

Going in I looked at carnivore as nothing more than a weight loss hack. Do it for a few weeks, maybe a couple months, drop some weight and then go back to how I always ate. I stumbled upon the health benefits, and all the way to the point of calling BS when I first started watching 'carnivore health benefit videos'. I was like, "What are the odds of a ribeye replacing my pain and inflammation medicine?".

I would have bet the farm against it and wound up homeless, healthy, but homeless the same.

Scott

On 6/4/2025 at 9:06 AM, Scott F. said:

Geezy, you have one or two more birthdays than the criteria of this study, maybe next time, LOL)

I was starting to get disappointed that you were leaving me out, now I know it was just age discrimination. Lol.

Seriously though, good summation.

Go to Nick’s thread that he has going and watch the video I posted over there from Nick Norwitz. He does an excellent job of explaining the differences in the types of people who do or can do the sugar diet.

8 hours ago, Geezy said:

I was starting to get disappointed that you were leaving me out, now I know it was just age discrimination. Lol.

Seriously though, good summation.

Go to Nick’s thread that he has going and watch the video I posted over there from Nick Norwitz. He does an excellent job of explaining the differences in the types of people who do or can do the sugar diet.

Great video by Nick Norwitz. I mentioned on the other thread that anyone interested in the sugar diet should be aware of the genetic variances in FGF21 and also the low protein-high fat approach to raise FGF21.

On 6/6/2025 at 12:07 PM, Scott F. said:

I think most of the negativity comes from the name more so than the concept. If it were renamed 'fruit only' diet it would have been better received. When the title is SUGAR DIET and the first images are people with Mountain Dews, snack cakes and potato chips there is automatically a negative connotation.

I agree here. I finally edited and released my Sugar Diet video, and in it I say something similar. Eating lots of fruit doesn't sound that bad on the surface, but dumping all sort of sugar on them..... well.

On 6/7/2025 at 8:17 AM, Nick Heaz said:

Great video by Nick Norwitz. I mentioned on the other thread that anyone interested in the sugar diet should be aware of the genetic variances in FGF21 and also the low protein-high fat approach to raise FGF21.

I haven't made it to the other thread yet, but I did just watch Nick's video. Interesting that the same results can be had with high-fat low-protein just like with high-sugar low-protein, including its effects in FGF21.

Also interesting is that some people will recommend boosting their fat to protein ratio to accelerate fat loss. This age-old advice harmonizes with what Nick reveals.