challenge "World Carnivore Month" January Challenge!

[Carburetor]

10 hours ago, Geezy said:

Here we like to use blood trackers for finding game. 
This is my blood tracker. She loves her job. Has a very strong prey drive and one of the best noses I’ve seen. 

Looks good!

Our moose hunt is dependent on the dogs. We have an area where we think moose are, based on observation and tracking all year round. Moose have their standard routes,too.

So we let a dog in the area, area is already surrounded by hunters standing quietly in their posts.The dog finds a moose and starts barking at it from a reasonable distance, hopefully, to not scare the moose right away... After a while, A Dog guide can try to sneak closer while the moose is "hypnotized" by the dog. Sometimes guide manages to shoot the moose, more often the moose bolts away and one of the surrounding hunters can try to shoot it.

I had two Grey Norwegian moose dogs. The first one was too hot,moose did not stay. The second one was too shy... I did much better with german shepherds, obedience is the key with them. They tracked me many a deer in the dark,too. We are allowed to hunt very late in the dark, finding the dead deer can be tough.

---------------

To Nemo, I did not understand why minced meat by itself would be bad either. But the vet who told me about it was from Eastern Europe with horrible minced meat experiences there, she said "there can be anything" and that means chemicals,too. Who knows. Maybe the bad practises,whatever they are,are universal now? 

Anyways, my dog reacted very very strongly,that´s all I know. I was given a very expensive,imported good breed competition grade, basics trained german shepherd for free! All because of wrong nutrition. >Minced meat continued to be wrong.... I do not know why,all I know is what happened.

Reindeer is tasty but extremely lean.

[Geezy]

2 hours ago, Nemo said:

  i believe he has somehow a single minded prospective, and a bit of an absolutist way to approach the topic, seeing everything in black or white

Seriously? 
Dr. Barry is one of the most liberal people on the internet when it comes to carnivore. He is very understanding and not the least bit dogmatic. Even his wife is not carnivore. He’s definitely a live and let live kind of guy. 
 

The point he was trying to make is to simply eat what you can afford to eat and if that’s your only meat source then it’s better than the alternatives. You can’t get any less black and white than that , lol. 
 

If you can only afford to eat burger or mince then maybe you could get a meat grinder and make your own mince. That might be the cheapest way and you’d know exactly what’s in it. 

[Orweller]

3 hours ago, Nemo said:

I have to say that i highly disagree with dr. barry.  i believe he has somehow a single minded prospective, and a bit of an absolutist way to approach the topic, seeing everything in black or white. To be honest switching a europan diet for a hotdog based diet is surely not something that i would consider a good idea. There are levels of 'unhealthy', and i believe you can't go any more unhealthy than the standard american diet (since is based on ultra processed foods). I find his point of view single minded cause he bases his 'facts' on the prospective of someone that is heavily overweight and eats an ultraprocessed diet, which is very much not the case here. In my family is very common to get far over 100yo, and i'm positive that wouldn't  happen with a diet based on processed food like hotdogs. Sure hotdogs are better than eating at mcdonald, taco bell and dominos pizza, or eating potato chips in a bag with a coca-cola zero on the side, pop-tarts for breakfast, and cheese balls as a snack. But if i had to choose between the two i would go for worms and crickets

On my personal experiance (lived in the us for few years as a teen in texas and cali) people don't only eat processed food when they go out to eat, they tend to eat a lot of processed food at home as well which makes it a daily occurrance for the average Joe.

Here most of us buy raw ingredients and cook, so yes, you have the components of all the anti-nutrients and toxins present in plants which on the long run feeds autoimmune disease, but not the burden of ultra-processed food, which i personally believe to be worse in particular if combined with the first one.

I put hotdogs (Frankfurters) in the ham and sausage category, choose with care. My local store has locally made hotdogs, and I can assure you, these are no different than eating a bratwurst, or a good ham. This meat is "processed", as in smoked, cured, etc. Those products can be made at home without needing chemicals or fillers, and has been done for centuries. So me personally, I am not afraid of hotdogs, lunchmeat, or hams, but I choose carefully, with regards to fillers, flavor enhancers, and sugars. 
 

[Meathead]

6 hours ago, Orweller said:

Insane prices

$5.50/LB far from insane when euro beef is probably far superior than usa.

[Bob]

6 hours ago, Nemo said:

I have to say that i highly disagree with dr. barry...

he bases his 'facts' on the prospective of someone that is heavily overweight and eats an ultraprocessed diet, which is very much not the case here.

Yes, Dr. Berry's comments need to be taken in their context. He is saying that you can do a carnivore diet even with cheap cuts of meat, including hot dogs, and still see the beneficial effects. Meat is meat, and some hot dogs actually contain nutritious bits of meats that often get tossed out or overlooked, such as organ meats. 

At the same time, you have to look at the ingredients lists, and many cheap hotdogs contain fillers, seed oils, cornstarch, etc.

And yes, he is contrasting a "hot dog and bologna" diet with that of a standard American diet of cookies, cakes, pasta, pies, chips, snacks, etc. The cheap meat-based diet is the better alternative and might improve your health.

BUT... he's not a strict carnivore. He advocates what he has coined as "The Proper Human Diet" which is a spectrum of carnivore on the one end, and up to 100g of all-natural carbohydrate on the other end, depending on your personal physiology.

That's why I talk about a "carnivore-centric" diet here, because I am willing to acknowledge that while human physiology definitely favors that of a carnivore, we still designed and equipped to handle some vegetation, and have been eating plants just as long as we've been eating meat and breathing air.

[Nemo]

4 hours ago, Geezy said:

Seriously? 
Dr. Barry is one of the most liberal people on the internet when it comes to carnivore. He is very understanding and not the least bit dogmatic. Even his wife is not carnivore. He’s definitely a live and let live kind of guy. 
 

The point he was trying to make is to simply eat what you can afford to eat and if that’s your only meat source then it’s better than the alternatives. You can’t get any less black and white than that , lol. 
 

If you can only afford to eat burger or mince then maybe you could get a meat grinder and make your own mince. That might be the cheapest way and you’d know exactly what’s in it. 

i guess we read his words trough a different lens. I'd like to quote a sentence from the german book 'Homo Carnivorus': Every ten doctors there are 11 opinions, and they are all convinced to have the right one. I don't feel aligned to him, not in the ideas, but in the approach. I feel that he makes the same mistake of all the vegan doctors that claim the know the ultiimate truth.  While i see people like dr.chaffe  being much more open to the fact that they might be wrong, and therefore they present an idea in which they believe without offering it as the ultimate one, i see dr. Barry having a much more absolutist approach. For example in his several interviews with the team of dr.Norwitz, it was very noticable the comparison between the approaches of the two . One was saying that their findings, even tho incredibly interesting, had to be interpreted with caution, while the other one was saying that those were concrete evidence of his ideas being right. Those are just two very different approaches and i find myself more aligned with the one that i see as more balanced.  Btw i didn't referr to him as absolutist in a way that he would impose his ideas to others, but in a way that i just don't see him considering the possibility to be even partially incorrect, but the fact is that every nutritionist, and every doctor out there is sure to be right, and it takes to doubt you ideas in order to test them. That's why i enjoyed the book Homo Carnivorus, cause the author specifically said that he doesn't claim to have the ultimate truth, and that if tomorrow he found concrete evidence to support a vegan diet he would straight go vegan, but the current evidences led him to a carnivore diet. I feel to share his approach.

[Nemo]

3 hours ago, Orweller said:

I put hotdogs (Frankfurters) in the ham and sausage category, choose with care. My local store has locally made hotdogs, and I can assure you, these are no different than eating a bratwurst, or a good ham. This meat is "processed", as in smoked, cured, etc. Those products can be made at home without needing chemicals or fillers, and has been done for centuries. So me personally, I am not afraid of hotdogs, lunchmeat, or hams, but I choose carefully, with regards to fillers, flavor enhancers, and sugars. 
 

Absolutely agree with you, but here we have to differentiate between two things: ultra-processed meat and an artisanally cured sausage. One has a list of ingredients as long as the Bible, and the other doesn't.

 

[Nemo]

1 hour ago, Meathead said:

$5.50/LB far from insane when euro beef is probably far superior than usa.

the minced meat has indeed an honest price, less so the stakes.  about 35$/kg for the cheapest you can go is not a very good price when you eat about 1.3kg a day XD

[Nemo]

49 minutes ago, Bob said:

Yes, Dr. Berry's comments need to be taken in their context. He is saying that you can do a carnivore diet even with cheap cuts of meat, including hot dogs, and still see the beneficial effects. Meat is meat, and some hot dogs actually contain nutritious bits of meats that often get tossed out or overlooked, such as organ meats. 

At the same time, you have to look at the ingredients lists, and many cheap hotdogs contain fillers, seed oils, cornstarch, etc.

And yes, he is contrasting a "hot dog and bologna" diet with that of a standard American diet of cookies, cakes, pasta, pies, chips, snacks, etc. The cheap meat-based diet is the better alternative and might improve your health.

BUT... he's not a strict carnivore. He advocates what he has coined as "The Proper Human Diet" which is a spectrum of carnivore on the one end, and up to 100g of all-natural carbohydrate on the other end, depending on your personal physiology.

That's why I talk about a "carnivore-centric" diet here, because I am willing to acknowledge that while human physiology definitely favors that of a carnivore, we still designed and equipped to handle some vegetation, and have been eating plants just as long as we've been eating meat and breathing air.

totally agree with you, that's why in my response to Geezy i specified that by 'absolutist' i don't mean him being overly strict in his ideas, but rather his approach to the topic. In fact i happen to agree with most of what he says, i just have a different approach. i feel he is falling in the same trap of many vegan docs: ' I'm right because that is the right way of eating', rather than 'i believe that this is the right way according to my experiance and current finding, but i don't claim to have the ultimate truth'

[Nemo]

1 hour ago, Meathead said:

$5.50/LB far from insane when euro beef is probably far superior than usa.

About the quality i would say it is safer on the long run mostly cause regulations are much more stricts. the approach of the Us and european countries is opposite; in europe every substance is guilty until proved innocent.

-Europe: unless you bring a very long and consolidated list of evidences developed through the years of research, you ain't allowed to use it

-Us: If lab evidences seem ok then it can be used. if people start to have issue and they manage to prove that is related to the specific substance we used, then we'll withdraw it from the market.

About steroids they are strictly banned in every europan country, and anti-biotics are heavily regulated. In my native country for example, if a farmer is cought using steroids on animals (such as trenbolone) other than having his license taken away, and sanctions over 50k $, he faces jail time cause it is considered a crime since they are actively poisoning people for their own financial interest.

[Scott F.]

Almost the end of January. I'm eating like a horse. I thought I just felt that way but I am eating a lot. This morning I ate 4 eggs and three pretty big chicken thighs. I just finished a ribeye that was a hair over 18oz. It was mongo. I have been eating like this for several weeks now and the weight lost has bounced around 85lb. Week before last I gained 4lbs. I hadn't weighed in a few days. 

My pants were 44-46 back in May. I didn't buy any clothes for the longest. A few weeks ago, I got some Carhart pants. The 40's fit pretty good. This morning, they felt loose so I stepped up on the scale. 

This carnivore stuff is just crazy. I lost 5lbs in the last four days or so. I'm at 86 lost. 

Just as I thought I was figuring some things out this way of eating throws me a curve. 

Scott

[Joanna]

It’s going pretty well here. My daughter’s husband decided to go carnivore with us. My 7 year old granddaughter continues to improve her behavior and enjoy the food we make. We’re being very strict with our diets…no dairy, just BBBE. I’m looking forward to having more energy. I probably need more fat but when I have much fat I feel sick and lethargic.

[Orweller]

21 hours ago, Nemo said:

About the quality i would say it is safer on the long run mostly cause regulations are much more stricts. the approach of the Us and european countries is opposite; in europe every substance is guilty until proved innocent.

-Europe: unless you bring a very long and consolidated list of evidences developed through the years of research, you ain't allowed to use it

-Us: If lab evidences seem ok then it can be used. if people start to have issue and they manage to prove that is related to the specific substance we used, then we'll withdraw it from the market.

About steroids they are strictly banned in every europan country, and anti-biotics are heavily regulated. In my native country for example, if a farmer is cought using steroids on animals (such as trenbolone) other than having his license taken away, and sanctions over 50k $, he faces jail time cause it is considered a crime since they are actively poisoning people for their own financial interest.

Having eating on both sides of the pond, this is absolutely true. Perhaps why the prices differ also. 

[Geezy]

21 hours ago, Nemo said:

i guess we read his words trough a different lens. I'd like to quote a sentence from the german book 'Homo Carnivorus': Every ten doctors there are 11 opinions, and they are all convinced to have the right one. I don't feel aligned to him, not in the ideas, but in the approach. I feel that he makes the same mistake of all the vegan doctors that claim the know the ultiimate truth.  While i see people like dr.chaffe  being much more open to the fact that they might be wrong, and therefore they present an idea in which they believe without offering it as the ultimate one, i see dr. Barry having a much more absolutist approach. For example in his several interviews with the team of dr.Norwitz, it was very noticable the comparison between the approaches of the two . One was saying that their findings, even tho incredibly interesting, had to be interpreted with caution, while the other one was saying that those were concrete evidence of his ideas being right. Those are just two very different approaches and i find myself more aligned with the one that i see as more balanced.  Btw i didn't referr to him as absolutist in a way that he would impose his ideas to others, but in a way that i just don't see him considering the possibility to be even partially incorrect, but the fact is that every nutritionist, and every doctor out there is sure to be right, and it takes to doubt you ideas in order to test them. That's why i enjoyed the book Homo Carnivorus, cause the author specifically said that he doesn't claim to have the ultimate truth, and that if tomorrow he found concrete evidence to support a vegan diet he would straight go vegan, but the current evidences led him to a carnivore diet. I feel to share his approach.

I can understand where someone can see it that way. I don’t agree with everything he says but when he states something as fact he can usually back up his claims. 
I personally think that Chaffee and Baker and some of the others can be a little wishy washy in what they say because they don’t want to offend some people. I appreciate his being resolute in his approach. 
I just have to go by my experience in following Dr. Barry’s advice because it’s been 95% spot on for me. 

[Nemo]

57 minutes ago, Orweller said:

Having eating on both sides of the pond, this is absolutely true. Perhaps why the prices differ also. 

In general European prices are higher for a matter of quality and cost production related to it. But swedish prices are not related to quality. Swedish meat is not any better than meat for example from Italy even tho the prices are about double; the main differance is that here workers have much more rights, and those rights come to a cost. Here i personally know people that got 3 weeks off for an 'inflamation to the big toe'.

In Italy i had a piece of iron going through my arm while working, cutting through the muscle, and the company was mad cause the Doc gave me a full week at home. took me about two months to be able to use again the arm and i was working on a manual job using a single arm

[Nemo]

18 hours ago, Scott F. said:

This carnivore stuff is just crazy. I lost 5lbs in the last four days or so. I'm at 86 lost.

what i find wild is that this WOE doesn't just make you loose weight, it normalizes your weight to healthy standards. walking throught the same path you lost 86lb while i gained about 15lb and still improving. It kinda naturally leads you where you should be.

[Geezy]

3 hours ago, Nemo said:

what i find wild is that this WOE doesn't just make you loose weight, it normalizes your weight to healthy standards. walking throught the same path you lost 86lb while i gained about 15lb and still improving. It kinda naturally leads you where you should be.

We like to refer to that as weight optimization. When eating a proper diet our bodies will put us where we need to be. We just need to give it time to do its thing. 

[Scott F.]

This is very true because the math is not "mathing" at all. 

I'm eating like a horse. Week before I gained between 4 and 5 pounds. My total lost changed from 86 to 81. I'm eating a lifting so the weight is just a number. I feel pretty good where I am at each day. Then, while still eating a boat load of food (at least it feels that way) and everything else as normal, I dropped those five pounds in three or four days. 

I had a really good workout on Friday after a 12 hour night shift. I ate four chicken thighs Friday night. Saturday morning I had dropped 2 more pounds. On Saturday I ate 4 eggs and three chicken thighs for breakfast and then a ribeye that was a little over 18oz on Saturday night. I woke up Sunday morning another pound light.

I ate around 2 pounds of food, didn't take a dump and woke up a pound lighter.

Sometimes the math does not 'math'.

Scott

[Nemo]

7 hours ago, Scott F. said:

Sometimes the math does not 'math'.

 

same mate, math ain't mathing for me as well. I am eating almost half of the calories i used to: from 4500 down to about 2500, and i'm gaining weight. What i love the most is reducing the amount of meals, not having to focus the entire day on what my next meal is going to be, wash the dishes of the previous one, find the ingrediantes for the next one or the time for it. I just wake up, eat a meal, and eat another one before night night. The morning meal would be absolutely not necessary in terms of hunger, i feel 1 meal would be the right amount for satiety, but it's a matter of gaining some weight back.

[Geezy]

On 1/25/2025 at 8:04 AM, Carburetor said:

Our moose hunt is dependent on the dogs. We have an area where we think moose are, based on observation and tracking all year round. Moose have their standard routes,too.

So we let a dog in the area, area is already surrounded by hunters standing quietly in their posts.The dog finds a moose and starts barking at it from a reasonable distance, hopefully, to not scare the moose right away... After a while, A Dog guide can try to sneak closer while the moose is "hypnotized" by the dog. Sometimes guide manages to shoot the moose, more often the moose bolts away and one of the surrounding hunters can try to shoot it.

I had two Grey Norwegian moose dogs. The first one was too hot,moose did not stay. The second one was too shy... I did much better with german shepherds, obedience is the key with them. They tracked me many a deer in the dark,too. We are allowed to hunt very late in the dark, finding the dead deer can be tough.

Sounds like a fun hunt. I haven’t had moose meat since I lived in Alaska back in the 60’s.