PHOSPHORUS?

[GymRat]

I just listened to Bob's Video - "Will Carnivore Heal My Kidneys Now?? " ... and I'm very pleased to hear a person that is dealing with Stage 4 CKD as I am... suggesting that there is hope for me and others with the Stage 4 situation to deal with. I'm an 85 year-old Carnivore for 112-days so far, and feel great!  I was diagnosed with CHF about 10-months ago, before going Carnivore, and my cardiovascular is showing signs of slowly improving.  No other health issues.

My situation is that my Nephrologist just told me a few days ago that my Blood Test shows PHOSPHORUS is up to 5.4 mg/dL and he wants me to start taking a med to "binder" (Sevelamer Carbonate) with all its side effects ... to lower the level back to 4.1 mg/dL or lower. Says 5.4 level is very BAD! While my other numbers are reasonable and not a problem. Anyone know how to lower PHOSPHORUS level while staying on Carnivore Lifestyle. 

Being on Carnivore for 112 days, I'm not sure where all the Phosphorus is coming from... (probably the RibEye steaks?!?!) ... I do not know if 5.4 mg/dL is sooo Bad... That is why I have Signed up with your Carnivore Community... praying that I can find hope in the world of folks that may have dealt with this issue.

Mike

[Orweller]

3 hours ago, GymRat said:

I just listened to Bob's Video - "Will Carnivore Heal My Kidneys Now?? " ... and I'm very pleased to hear a person that is dealing with Stage 4 CKD as I am... suggesting that there is hope for me and others with the Stage 4 situation to deal with. I'm an 85 year-old Carnivore for 112-days so far, and feel great!  I was diagnosed with CHF about 10-months ago, before going Carnivore, and my cardiovascular is showing signs of slowly improving.  No other health issues.

My situation is that my Nephrologist just told me a few days ago that my Blood Test shows PHOSPHORUS is up to 5.4 mg/dL and he wants me to start taking a med to "binder" (Sevelamer Carbonate) with all its side effects ... to lower the level back to 4.1 mg/dL or lower. Says 5.4 level is very BAD! While my other numbers are reasonable and not a problem. Anyone know how to lower PHOSPHORUS level while staying on Carnivore Lifestyle. 

Being on Carnivore for 112 days, I'm not sure where all the Phosphorus is coming from... (probably the RibEye steaks?!?!) ... I do not know if 5.4 mg/dL is sooo Bad... That is why I have Signed up with your Carnivore Community... praying that I can find hope in the world of folks that may have dealt with this issue.

Mike

Isn't that (high) phosphorus not a result of your kidney condition? 

 

[Orweller]

I'd say cut dairy if you haven't already. 

[Scott F.]

How is your Vitamin D? Calcium? I'm reading about the kidneys on carnivore right now because my creatinine levels sort of jumped. Nothing all that alarming but it was a pretty good shift.

I'm asking because Vitamin D helps with phosphorous and calcium absorption in the body to help maintain a metabolic balance between the two. I have read 2:1. 

Hopefully you figure it out. Congrats on the 112 days. 

Scott

[Skeptic]

First of all, WELCOME, and welcome to the best natural way of eating on the planet!  Carnivore has helped me get my life back, and this is a great community.

Others that know much more than myself may correct me on this, but to my knowledge, for those with kidney trouble, one of the things that can build up to excess in the blood is phosphorus.  Sevelamer Carbonate binds up a lot of this phosphorus in the stomach to prevent initial absorption, thus reducing the high blood count later on down the line.
Side effects look to be generally mild, and in line with what would be expected from a binder.  Our bodies do NEED phosphorus of course, but in balance. If they can get the dosage dialed in correctly, it may be a helpful medication to take while healing happens on the carnivore diet.  With proper nutrition and fasting, it may be possible to reduce and eventually come off the medication as levels naturally improve.  

I am on insulin for type 1 diabetes, and carnivore has enabled me to steadily decrease the amount I am on (by a great amount!) but I would be VERY sick without it at this point.

That all being said, some of the "helpful hints" the medical establishment may throw at you to reduce phosphorus are 
1) Discontinue eating red meat
2) Supplement with high levels of vitamin D

I personally would steer clear of these recommendations, to put it mildly.

[Geezy]

Welcome to Carnivore Talk Mike.

Since people with kidney disease can have trouble removing phosphorus from their blood they may need to limit their phosphorus intake.

Foods that can be high in phosphorus and you might consider cutting out are ,
Chicken, pork, sea food, organ meats and dairy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Skeptic]

5 hours ago, GymRat said:

 

Being on Carnivore for 112 days, I'm not sure where all the Phosphorus is coming from...

I should have also asked, is this reading only since you have started the carnivore diet?  Were your phosphorous levels below 4.5 previously?

[GymRat]

8 minutes ago, Skeptic said:

I should have also asked, is this reading only since you have started the carnivore diet?  Were your phosphorous levels below 4.5 previously?

Back on 11/6/2024 my Phosphorus was 4.6 mg/dL and recent test on 2/6/2025 was at 5.4 mg/dL. So, the rise of 0.8 mg/dL is during my 112 days on Carnivore (almost 4 months).  But, I can not say it is definitely "caused" by those RibEye steaks... It may have risen more or less if I never went Carnivore. 

I also do not know if 5.4 mg/dL is a small or big issue. 

I'm would also like to know if exercise (walking and weight training) would potentially help decrease the Phosphorus level.

Carnivore has already greatly improved my CHF and overall feeling of good health.  I am convinced that if I went back to the pre-carnivore lifestyle my recently gained health benefits would mostly go away.  That is NOT an option.

ALL the comments above are greatly appreciated. 

[Orweller]

On 3/8/2025 at 9:24 PM, GymRat said:

walking and weight training

It most certainly wouldn't hurt. Especially when starting slow. 

[Bob]

On 3/8/2025 at 9:24 PM, GymRat said:

I also do not know if 5.4 mg/dL is a small or big issue.

I remember when mine hit 4.8 and I remarked to my nephrologist about it being above the high range, and he said he wasn't worried about it. He said the risk for osteoporosis doesn't start until at least 5.5 and up. After 6 months on my carnivore diet mine was up to 5.3 but he still wasn't concerned and was happier about some of the other small improvements I was experiencing.

Then, after the fenofibrate debacle that I talked about in the video you watched (which was prescribed by my PCP, and my nephro said get off that stuff immediately), my phosphorous was up to 9.2. I stopped drinking dark colored sodas (which contain Phosphoric acid) and went a month without cheese and brought it down to 8.3.

I'll be testing again this week.

So far, nobody has mentioned taking a phosphate binder, but the thought has been bouncing around in the back of my mind. The problem is that meat is heavy on the phosphorous. But DAIRY contains the most concentrated phosphorous of them all. The only way to lower it is to excrete it through the urine.

The tricky juggling act is to try not to consume it faster than the kidney can expel it. Start with cutting out dark sodas if you are still drinking them. In fact, read the labels of any food or beverage and make sure none of the ingredients have the letters PHOS in them. If you can bear it, try to cut down on or eliminate cheeses and dairy. I don't think this applies to butter and ghee.

This page and the food chart at the bottom is pretty helpful...

https://www.kidney.org/kidney-topics/phosphorus-and-your-diet