Thoughts on coffee and vitamins?

[Scottk]

Bob,

Look forward to birthday and  months keto. What tasty looking meat cake. What are your thoughts on coffee and vitamins may I ask. Thanks

Scott

[Bob]

On 9/26/2024 at 3:26 PM, Scottk said:

What are your thoughts on coffee and vitamins may I ask.

Hi Scott!

You'll find that most carnivores, even the strict ones, will still consume coffee, even though it comes from a plant - and the seeds at that (the most heavily defended part of most plants).

It's pretty benign and innocent for most people. Unfortunately, I'm not like most people. I used to love coffee, but then I learned that the toxins in coffee were (part of) what was triggering my ulcerative colitis. When I quit coffee, I started to heal and got off my prescription meds. 

But most others can drink it without issues, so if that's you, then enjoy! Have one for me. 

Regarding vitamins, you'll be getting just about everything you need from your food when you follow a carnivore or carnivore-centric diet, so there isn't much need for supplementation with a multivitamin. If you need something specific, it's usually vitamin D if you don't get enough sun, and maybe some electrolytes if you're not getting enough through food (because we don't get it in our filtered water these days). Some take a tiny bit of iodine.

[Geezy]

The only vitamin I take is D. Everything else is bioavailable from the meat.


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[Scottk]

Thanks gezzy, I have an autoimmune condition MS and therefore take extremely high amounts. May I ask how much you take and do you take vitamin K2 with it. Appreciate your help

[Scott F.]

I have Neuromyelitis Optica Spectrum Disorder/NMO/SD, Devic's, which is mostly the same as MS but attacks the optic nerve. I'm five months on carnivore. I took prednisone and gabapentin(neurotin) for pain and inflammation. After abut a month on carnivore I no longer felt the need for the medicine and stopped. I have been both pain free, and medicine free since May.

I only take Vitamin D. I take 6000ieu's daily but I was Vitamin D deficient for a number of years prior. Since the carnivore diet the Vitamin D numbers have improved although they never did on the same amount prior. Not sure. 

Scott

[Bob]

20 hours ago, Scottk said:

May I ask how much you take and do you take vitamin K2 with it. Appreciate your help

They do say K2 pairs well with vitamin D. A lot of keto/carnivores take a D3/K2 supplement that comes together in a single pill.

19 hours ago, Scott F. said:

I only take Vitamin D. I take 6000ieu's daily but I was Vitamin D deficient for a number of years prior.

It's important to get your vitamin D levels check somewhat regularly when you take high doses. A friend of mine was deficient, and started taking 5000 IU's a day and within a couple months he was on the verge of vitamin D toxicity.

On the other hand, I spill vitamin D (or the proteins which vitamin D binds to) through my urine because of my stage 4 kidney disease. I take 10,000 IU's daily and it has taken YEARS to climb up to decent levels. Eventually I will have to back off of it. 

But most people who take the dose that I take would suffer consequences pretty fast.

[Geezy]

Thanks gezzy, I have an autoimmune condition MS and therefore take extremely high amounts. May I ask how much you take and do you take vitamin K2 with it. Appreciate your help

I am taking a D-3 with MK-7. 5000 IU/180 mcg.
I’ll be having my biannual physical soon so I’ll be looking to see if that high a dose has been doing anything detrimental.


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[ljimd]

Mug of joe every morning with liberal amount of heavy cream, some salt and pat of butter. So far so good.
As for vitamins, B50, C, and D. Minerals are zinc and magnesium.
The coffee is a small pleasure in life that I would hate to do without.
The vitamins and minerals are mostly as insurance.

[Orweller]

On 9/29/2024 at 1:09 PM, Scottk said:

Thanks gezzy, I have an autoimmune condition MS and therefore take extremely high amounts. May I ask how much you take and do you take vitamin K2 with it. Appreciate your help

I also have an auto-immune condition, AS. I do drink coffee (with stevia and butter/or chocolate LMNT for electrolytes). When it comes to coffee I am more concerned with acidity levels and of course the amount of caffeine. I've switched since to half caf, and add an occasional heavy cream to reduce acidity. Other than that, I don't worry about it. 

I take Fish Oil, Magnesium, Potassium, D3, K2 (3 times a week), and 300MCG iodine, and an occasional vitamin C. No B vitamins as we get those a plenty on the meat. No vitamin A as we get those plenty, in fact, do NOT consume too much organ meats or we face vitamin A toxicity. SO be careful with A and B. 

[Orweller]

On 9/30/2024 at 10:11 AM, Bob said:

They do say K2 pairs well with vitamin D. A lot of keto/carnivores take a D3/K2 supplement that comes together in a single pill.

It's important to get your vitamin D levels check somewhat regularly when you take high doses. A friend of mine was deficient, and started taking 5000 IU's a day and within a couple months he was on the verge of vitamin D toxicity.

On the other hand, I spill vitamin D (or the proteins which vitamin D binds to) through my urine because of my stage 4 kidney disease. I take 10,000 IU's daily and it has taken YEARS to climb up to decent levels. Eventually I will have to back off of it. 

But most people who take the dose that I take would suffer consequences pretty fast.

Good point about mega dosing. Baby steps, especially vitamin D levels may swing depending on the season, perfectly normal and ancestrally appropriate. 

[Orweller]

17 hours ago, ljimd said:

Mug of joe every morning with liberal amount of heavy cream, some salt and pat of butter. So far so good.
As for vitamins, B50, C, and D. Minerals are zinc and magnesium.
The coffee is a small pleasure in life that I would hate to do without.
The vitamins and minerals are mostly as insurance.

Rather than a B complex I'd focus on B7 (Biotin) and B9 (Folate). There's my advice you did not ask for hehe. 

[ljimd]

6 hours ago, Orweller said:

Rather than a B complex I'd focus on B7 (Biotin) and B9 (Folate). There's my advice you did not ask for hehe. 

I don't mind advice, after all that's why I'm here. My B50 tab includes 400 mcg folic acid, and 50 mcg of biotin.

Why the focus on folate acid and biotin?

[Orweller]

15 hours ago, ljimd said:

I don't mind advice, after all that's why I'm here. My B50 tab includes 400 mcg folic acid, and 50 mcg of biotin.

Why the focus on folate acid and biotin?

From my understanding -and I am not an expert but we're learning together here- those are the nutrients we're most likely to miss out on. 

I'm saying that, since moving to carnivore, myself, I have stayed away from any complexes, and have taken supplements separately. No more multi-vitamins, etc. Number one, I do not we believe we absorb a whole lot of those nutrients, and two, we get most of them by eating ruminant animals. 

[ljimd]

3 minutes ago, Orweller said:

From my understanding -and I am not an expert but we're learning together here- those are the nutrients we're most likely to miss out on. 

I'm saying that, since moving to carnivore, myself, I have stayed away from any complexes, and have taken supplements separately. No more multi-vitamins, etc. Number one, I do not we believe we absorb a whole lot of those nutrients, and two, we get most of them by eating ruminant animals. 

Appreciate your thoughts and the reply. I agree that it's debatable how much of the water
soluble vits we use and that ruminants probably supply, most, if not all we need.  I do the
complex mostly out of habit and convenience.

As I said, I value your input and try to keep an open mind with all opinions.

 

[Bob]

Hey Larry @ljimd, I just notice that you're a fellow Ohioan, along with @Orweller and myself.

20 hours ago, ljimd said:

Why the focus on folate acid and biotin?

Some long-term carnivores have found themselves low in folate, which could make you feel fatigued. There is folate in animal foods to varying degrees, so if you are eating enough, you'll be fine. If you're a light eater, then occasionally adding some beef liver (good) or chicken livers (better!) will bring those levels back up.

[ljimd]

1 hour ago, Bob said:

Hey Larry @ljimd, I just notice that you're a fellow Ohioan, along with @Orweller and myself.

Some long-term carnivores have found themselves low in folate, which could make you feel fatigued. There is folate in animal foods to varying degrees, so if you are eating enough, you'll be fine. If you're a light eater, then occasionally adding some beef liver (good) or chicken livers (better!) will bring those levels back up.

Yes, up near the lake. (snowbelt, ugh!)

I'll re-educate myself on the B's. Could be I might need to keep closer eye on it. The wife hates organ

meats so I rarely have them but I like liver.

[Bob]

On 10/3/2024 at 12:25 PM, ljimd said:

Yes, up near the lake. (snowbelt, ugh!)

I'm down here between Kent and Akron, just outside the snowbelt. Hudson seems to be the dividing line. I can leave my house and start driving up Route 8 North, and right about where the turnpike begins there it will go from no snow to god-awful amounts of snow, lol

I'm not big on organ meats. I think they can be eaten from time to time, but shouldn't be a daily staple. Ancient man didn't go around eating kidneys and livers every day, lol.

[Geezy]

Ancient man didn't go around eating kidneys and livers every day, lol.

No did modern man for the most part. They are the organs when they made a kill. I haven’t taken a deer yet this year but when I do the first things consumed will be the liver, heart and kidneys. For us they are the fruits of the kill.
My daughter is fixin to butcher a steer and we will be getting the heart, liver and kidneys from that kill.


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[Meathead]

I've had almost every organ in an animal including bull nuts and cow uterus. Waste not want not.  Fish eyes are good  

[Geezy]

I've had almost every organ in an animal including bull nuts and cow uterus. Waste not want not.  Fish eyes are good  

Calf fries are a staple for us during round ups. I’m one of the castraters. Uterus I have not tried.
I haven’t eaten fish eyes but I my mother would. She learned to eat the whole fish head including the eyes when the family was stationed in Japan. Before my time though.


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